double loads for bear?

[1eyemountainmen]

I have been reading a book about hunting the west. In the book there's a tale of a hunter killing a grizzly bear with a Hawken rifle. The hunter loaded two round balls- one on top of the other, and killed the bear. What would be the advantage of this, would there be more power? It would seem that this would make the recoil alot more. Any ideas

 

[longcruise]

I have been reading a book about hunting the west. In the book there's a tale of a hunter killing a grizzly bear with a Hawken rifle. The hunter loaded two round balls- one on top of the other, and killed the bear. What would be the advantage of this, would there be more power? It would seem that this would make the recoil alot more. Any ideas

When double balls are shot, they tend to impact a few inches apart one above the other. Advantage would be two holes instead of one! :haha: Even if the powder charge was not increased, there would be more "power" in terms of energy because doubling the projectile weight(s) will not cut velocity in half. Recoil would be increased but would not be unbearable (pun intended )

I have heard these stories about double balling for bear. Some have called it "loaded for bear". Always wondered if there was any factual basis for these tales.

 

[rabjr]

If I remember right Danny Caywood has a bear hunt posted on his site and he used the two ball load.

 

[longcruise]

If I thought my bore a bit small, I'd go ahead and add a bit more powder and an extra ball. BP turbocharger!

 

[redwing]

Many Elk hunters here in the West dbl. ball. Try firing a dbl. ball load on paper. They shoot very well. :grin:

 

[BrownBear]

I've always been curious about the loads, but concerned about pressures. Anyone have any worthwhile references?

 

[rabjr]

I did try it in a .50 cal Renegade once to see and was surprised how close the balls were together at 25 yards. I don't remember shooting beyond that range. I'm sure I only did it once or twice. It was just one of those things where I saw you could do it, so I had to try it once.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have double balled on purpose a number of times. They usually print one above the other about 2 inches apart at 25 yards. This is true whether rifled or smoothbore. That would be a double hurt on a bear.

The Carolina Militia used to load their guns that way when they were attacking the British during the Rev War. In one famous battle the leader of the British Unit fell dead with two .32 ball in the head fired from one rifle gun.

Many Klatch

 

[Little Wattsy]

I've always been curious about the loads, but concerned about pressures. Anyone have any worthwhile references?

No "facts" but a double ball out of a .50 is 358 grains of lead..Hornady makes connicals that will go 450 grs. That was where my thought process started anyway....But then I am a product of Publik Skool. :wink:
Personally I hant experianced good enough accuracy between 50 and 100 yards to mess with them. BUT I like to try it out of each new gun i get "just to make sure" :grin:

 

[rabjr]

If I remember right when I bought my Renegade the manual had a double ball loading.

 

[roundball]

I've always been curious about the loads, but concerned about pressures. Anyone have any worthwhile references?

T/C load data manuals in the early years listed double ball loads...not for bear...but in .45 and .50cal, with 100gns of powder.

 

[rabjr]

Told ya's! :haha: Yep thats what made me try it.

 

[BrownBear]

That's real useful Roundball, and answers my next question about how to patch them, as well. Thanks!

At the range we do most of our hunting, 50 yard accuracy is ample. And since we're "sharing" the hills with Kodiaks, a couple of 58 cal balls is a little more reassuring in extremes, too. Time to start sperimenting.

Let's see now.... 279 grains x 2 = 558 grains. And 558 grains divided by 440 grains per ounce is 1 1/4 oz. And 1 1/4 oz of lead at 1,500 fps divided by the separation in inches between the two balls at impact then divided by the length of the bear divided by his mass..... Developing a bear load is turning into a lotta work. Where's Paul when I need him? :rotf:

 

[longcruise]

The single big caution when loading double balls is to check and make sure that you have not compressed enough air between the balls that it could push the second ball up the bore a ways.

 

[roundball]

Where's Paul when I need him? :rotf:

You'd get a marathon theoretical discussion of why it couldn't work because it was over 70grns and all the excess is wasted unless it lands on snow in which case it can be scooped up and used to make BP hand grenades because its all unburned and due to the angle of the sun in Alaska you'll have to dry it on the western facing slope of the roof of the barn on a Thursday under a full moon...etc

 

[BrownBear]

I just KNEW it had to be more complicated than shoving a second patched ball down onto the first. :wink:

 

[roundball]

On a serious note, I experimented with a few double loads in .45 and in .50cal like the old T/C manual referenced and was surprised to find that they are actually very accurate, printing as a pair within 1.0" to 1.5" of each other.

No reason to suspect that a pair of .54s or .58s wouldn't do the same thing...and the good news is, the double ball load uses the same single powder charge...so its a simple matter of being out hunting with a normal PRB load down bore, then just seating the second PRB down bore if you had a need to do that

 

[BrownBear]

That's good to know. I've been in many "situations" with a few moments available for quickly seating a second ball. Fresh tracks still dripping out of a creek, seeing a bear ambling my way and no place to avoid it, deer down and bears in the immediate vicinity. The accuracy potential tells me that after the moment passed I could go back to hunting without the hassle of pulling the second ball.

I hadn't made the connection before on pressures (Doh!), but I have frequently used my round ball charge measure for 550 grain or so conicals. Yeah, I'm using moderate loads, but still. Basic math (1+1=2) slipped right by me.

 

[RugerDog]

I accidently double-balled my Hawken .45 cal last weekend (the price of getting distracted while loading). I wasn't sure what to do, so failing any reason why it wouldn't be ok, I went ahead and shot. To my surprise, they hit within 1.5" of each other at 50 yards.

 

[roundball]

The accuracy potential tells me that after the moment passed I could go back to hunting without the hassle of pulling the second ball.

That's definitely an attractive part of it...yes, velocity would be down some but still, at typical short to moderate range hunting distances it really wouldn't matter to speak of...trajectory wouldn't be all that much different at a mere 50 yards.

AND...you could just as easily pull the second ball