Double rifles?

[kwilfong]

Anybody shoot a double?
I've got an itch for one & would like to hear your experiences with them. Seems like I've read some horror stories about them not being regulated very well or at all.

 

[David W.]

I have an older Kodiak Express .58 double rifle. It has one front sight and two rear sights which can be adjusted independently. I am unsure of the current set up.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

The Pedersolis have gotten better. They are regulated, but you still have to work out your own regulated load. That's something of an art, and there are people whose profession is the custom regulation of double rifles.

 

[MercerLake]

:v Several years ago I had a Kodiak .54cal and could not get the barrels to shoot to anywhere near each other without using the supplied separate rear sights, I wanted or hoped to use one rear sight. So traded it away. Since then having been bitten with the "doble bug" I bought a .72 Kodiak Express with two rear sights, but lo and behold both barrels shot within 2-3" of each other using Prb and a single rear sight at most practical distances. Each barrel grouped very tightly but the trick was finding the compromise that allowed both barrels to shoot to near the same point of impact.
I believe that it is easier to find the ideal load using a Prb rather than a much heavier conical,less recoil, and use a standing rest rather than a sitting bench rest. The search for the best load is kind of like the chewing gum commercial, "Double your Fun". :v

 

[Naphtali]

I have a pair of Kodiak Safari .72-caliber rifles, both of which are the "higher" grade and were manufactured within the last two years. One remains unfired - just in case they proved to be unsatisfactory.

1. I had a custom short conical bullet made to the specifications of my slugged barrels that will be used on flintlock English-style rifles. The bullets are cast 30:1. Because they have a slightly tapering series of driving bands, bullets also fit my Safaris.

2. I proved Safari #1 because the load range is significantly beyond Pedersoli's [attorney-mandated] recommended loading. I have a 30-grain range of FFg load options.

3. The initial load testing and work-up showed astonishingly good accuracy coupled with tight cone of fire at 25, 50, and 100 yards. I then had a simulated leather Pachmayr pad installed, length of pull adjusted, trigger job on a slightly creepy trigger - and a Brockman adjustable aperture sight installed at the barrels' breech. Pedersoli's middle rear sight was removed and holes plugged with screws.

3. Initial testting of gunsmithed rifle shows changes in cone of fire. As I type the rifle is satisfactory for deer/elk up to 85 yards. By the time season opens in Montana, the rifle will be satisfactory for any range at which I care to shoot - that is, up to 125 yards.

4. The downside to using the projectiles I prefer include: exceptionally heavy recoil; and knowledge than reloading in the field is infeasible for any sort of follow-up series of shots. If I don't bring the quarry down in two shots, subsequent shots will take several minutes to prepare. I don't consider this much of a downside, though. I created the .72s (specifically including the flintlocks being built) to be able to use on a once-in-a-lifetime hunt.

5. My shooting-hunting partner and I are beginning penetration testing and comparison with known rifle-ammuntion combinations. Initial testing shows Safari load to penetrate comparably with 45-70/425/1650 (WW heat treated to Brinnell 28) and not nearly as deeply as the same 45-70 load with bullet NOT heat treated. Heat treated bullet shattered while Safari bullet flattened, destroying tremendous area surrounding hole, then separated into two pieces. Eventually we will test Safari bullets 20:1 and 10:1. Safari's 30:1 bullet is tremendous overkill for anything in North America except, perhaps, Asian buffalo (in Tennessee??).
***
My evaluation is that higher grade Kodiak rifles are surprisingly accurate out of the box. With work, and accepting that you CAN create distinct loads for each barrel (knowing that quick reloads ain't gonna happen) that will allow you to comfortably shoot at any range the sights allow.

You asked me what time it is, and I told you how the watch worked. . . . Sorry.

Hope this helps.

 

[Chris Cade]

here's the experience with my cva .50 double rifle. the group is about 5" at 50 yards. i'm planning on filing the right barrel to bring up the poa in a couple weeks.

Double Rifle

 

[kwilfong]

Naphtali, that was very interesting!
Mechslasher; could you elaborate on how you will file the barrel?

 

[Chris Cade]

because my right barrel is hitting about 5" lower than my left barrel, paulvallandigham suggested that i file the lower part of the muzzle to bring the poa closer to the left barrel. i'm planning on giving this a try in a week or two when i have a day to sit down with the rifle and work with it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That is a good post. Enjoy the safari.
I once had an experimental CW rifled musket that took a .715 round ball. With 120gr. FFg it was a major shoulder thumper. Wish I had kept it though, would have been a good hunter even if no fun on the range.

 

[kwilfong]

I had the opportunity to handle one of those Pedersoli .72 doubles today. That's a hefty piece. Very well made.
I've just emailed Papa here to get the CVA .50 in the classifieds.

Mechslasher; keep us posted!

 

[Billnpatti]

I have a double .50 cal imported by Trail Guns Armory. I think it was made by Pedersoli. I bought it second hand and it had a scope mounted on it. The scope proved to be useless because the barrels are not well regulated. However, when I removed the scope and used the two open rear sights, I could get each barrel to group in the same POI by using the rearmost rear sight for the barrel controlled by the rear trigger and the foremost of the rear sights for the barrel controlled by the front trigger. Once I did that, it came down to finding the load that gave me the best group. For my rifle it was 80 grains of fffG Goex behind a R.E.A.L. bullet and a leather OP wad.

 

[kwilfong]

Well, I got the CVA .50 coming. Any more tips y'all can pass along will be appreciated.
BTW; +1 for Papa. Great guy to deal with!!
I've always been fascinated by double rifles. My Walter Mitty is going elephant hunting. :wink:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Recent Pedersoli Kodiaks are regulated at the factory. They first use a laser system to align the two bores, and finish with a test firing making any adjustments by filing the muzzle. The two rear sights are intended for use a different ranges, as is pretty standard on English double rifles. (Just how "well regulated" they are is a matter for the second amendment types to debate.) Of course what powder patch, ball, was used in test firing is of considerable importance, and the user has to work up the load that works best both separately and in tandem. This requires a lot more patience than working up a load for a traditional long rifle.

I understand that that the regulation of earlier guns was relatively haphazard, mostly because they did not have the laser technology at the time.

 

[David W.]

I understand that that the regulation of earlier guns was relatively haphazard, mostly because they did not have the laser technology at the time.

I don't know about the newer rifles and the laser alignment, but my older "unregulated" .58 rifle shoots just fine using 90 gr FFg and PRB in both barrels. Maybe I'm just lucky. Still, I would like to see the later production models!

 

[Bob J]

I had a Kodiak .58 double, vintage approx. 2003. Although I experimented with all types of loads, the best grouping was with 100 grains Goex 2f, wonder-lubed pillow ticking, and .570 roundball. Six shots (3 each barrel) in a big ragged hole at 50 yards. It also performed decently with the Black Widow conical and a stout load of triple 7. My friend's CVA Double .54 performed well with the Black Widow Conical and 80 grains of Triple 7. He shot a six-point buck with this load and the damage was significant.

 

[Billnpatti]

Yeah, I knew that the intended way to adjust the two rear sights was to have one set for one distance and one set for another distance. But because my barrels were not regulated all that well, the left barrel was shooting a couple inches high and to the right and the right barrel was shooting about the same distasnce low and to the left at 50 yards. I just chose to treat them as if they were two separate rifles and adjusted one rear sight for one barrel and the other rear sight for the other barrel. Ya just gotta remember which sight goes with which barrel and to fold down one sight and raise the other between shots. Aside from the slight deviation from true regulation, the barrels are accurate and it is a fun gun to shoot and gives me a quick back up shot when hunting.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Yeah, I knew that the intended way to adjust the two rear sights was to have one set for one distance and one set for another distance. But because my barrels were not regulated all that well, the left barrel was shooting a couple inches high and to the right and the right barrel was shooting about the same distasnce low and to the left at 50 yards. I just chose to treat them as if they were two separate rifles and adjusted one rear sight for one barrel and the other rear sight for the other barrel. Ya just gotta remember which sight goes with which barrel and to fold down one sight and raise the other between shots. Aside from the slight deviation from true regulation, the barrels are accurate and it is a fun gun to shoot and gives me a quick back up shot when hunting.

Well, that's a very reasonable thing to do if regulating doesn't work.

 

[kwilfong]

I got the CVA .50 double today. So far I like it. Not too heavy. Trigger pulls are OK out of the box. I'm anxious to shoot it.

 

[kwilfong]

Here's my 1st 2 shots from each barrel. Obviously I've got work to do. Any suggestions?

 

Kevin,
For the first 4 shots out of the rifle, I think it shows promise. I would not change anything yet except to move out to 50 yards, using the same sight picture, and see if the two groups move together some. At this point the barrels, individually, are grouping but you don't know at what distance they may be regulated.
Mark