Douglas Barrels

[White Oak]

I have located a TC flintlock I may be interested in. Don't know much about it right now but I understand that it has a unfired Douglas barrel on it.
How was Douglas quality?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[M. De Land]

I have one on a .54 Hawken style rifle and it is smooth and accurate but I'm pretty sure they were made of 12L14 leaded steel which is not good for barrel steel as far as shock loading is concerned.
Having said that most of the cottage market muzzle loading barrels are of the same steel with the exception of Green Mountain which is all I personally buy now days.

 

[faste350]

I have two. one is a .32 cal XX and is extremely accurate. the other is a .45 cal and shoots well, but I have not shot it much. i'm happy with both.

 

[Tom Compton]

I have several and had several more. Won 7 Texas state championships with them plus Louisiana State, Mid South in Memphis and 4 of the old NMLRA Territorials. Also have center fires and .22 RF w Douglas barrels. Not able to out shoot em yet.
TC

 

[Col. Batguano]

If I recall, Douglas has been out of the ML'er barrel making biz for at least a decade. they had a pretty good reputation, but are also known to have made barrels with run-out to them. Not really an issue if the sights are aligned with the bore direction, but check for it when you look at the muzzle. Douglas wasn't the only one that had it, but they were known for it.

 

[Bo T]

Thanks for the heads up on the 12L14 barrel steel. I was not aware of its limitations.

 

[George]

Thanks for the heads up on the 12L14 barrel steel. I was not aware of its limitations.

I believe you will find a big majority of barrel manufacturers use 12L14 steel, and none of them have any problems with it.
Five years ago I called Scott R. Keller at Colerain barrels and asked him what kind of steel they use, and he replied: "We use 12L14, have for 22 years and it works fine for muzzleloader barrels." Don Getz of Getz Barrel Company said they use 12L14, that they have made over 30,000 of them as of 2011 with no problem. I believe Charlie Burton, Longhammock and Rice also use 12L14.

I've sat in on many similar discussions, and have never seen any convincing evidence of problems with 12L14, but one heck of a lot of negative speculation.

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Have a .45 cal. hand built flint rifle with a 38 1/2 inch Douglas barrel and it was always way more accurate than I was. The only "problem" with that rifle is Douglas wasn't making swamped barrels when this rifle was built in 1975, so it is muzzle heavy. When I was a lot younger, that was fine and I appreciated the weight up front for Offhand Shooting.

For some reason, 41 years later, it is not as easy to hold so steady in the offhand. :wink:

Gus

 

[Vaino]

My first flint LR build in 1977 used a Douglas .45 bbl and it's accounted for 100s of head hit squirrels. It's 42" lg X 7/8 octagon and the LR is a bit muzzle heavy, but really "lays in there".

Douglas used a hot drawing process somewhat like extruding to achieve an octagon shape and then bored and rifled the bbl.....if the drill "walked", the bore was off center. If the Douglas stamping was put on the bottom, the bore runout was vertical and could easily be compensated w/ the sight adjustment.

The rifling is shallow compared to many bbls produced today and the bore was smoothed using a carbide "button".

When hunting, some days wire brushing isn't needed at all....easy loading after 7-8 shots. Must be the extremely smooth bore.

Most bbl makers today use 12L14 steel and although some "bad mouth" this steel, there's no actual proof of its unsuitability .....Fred

 

[SgtErv]

Douglas Barrels is based in my hometown in WV actually. I went to high school with a couple of the gents that work there. They don't make muzzleloader barrels anynore. They've got a wall full of awards won with shooters using their barrels.

(Probably not too helpful haha)

They have some YouTube videos of their current manufacturing processes, which haven't changed much over the years in told.

 

[M. De Land]

I read up on 12L14 some years ago put out by a metallurgist on the weakness of the alloy particularly in very cold conditions which most muzzle loaders are not subjected to.
It is very weak from shock loading under these conditions as was not recommended as barrel steel.
It machines well and seems to hold up when kept under pressure levels of about 25K psi or so which almost all muzzle loader are.
Douglas had some blow ups early on and probably contributed to their stopping the production of muzzle loader barrels using this alloy.
It was most attributed to their steel suppliers cold rolling of the alloy if I remember correctly.
Mine has given good service for years of match shooting but I wouldn't use it with stiff hunting loads in really cold weather here in AK.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The my research shows that Douglas barrels were well thought of and were used to win many championships. A barrel failure, which I'm told was most likely due to shooter error, resulted in a lawsuit. Douglas was not the only defendant, but because of insurance it was the one with the "deep pockets" so it "went under". Lessons learned from Douglas Barrel and the lawsuit, taught the remaining barrel makers then, and those who have come along since, better ways to severely limit their liability.

You will probably find that rifle an excellent shooter.

LD

 

[32chevy vett]

I built a 45 cal. Bedford rifle using a Douglas barrel about 50 yrs. ago at that time it was said to be the best. That shot better then any gun I've ever had. Some low life broke into my house and stole it. I took many deer and a bear with that gun.

 

[M. De Land]

I feel for you and have had guns stolen out of my house as well.
I have to work at it to forgive thieves , especially gun thieves, they're right up there with child molesters in my mind! :td:

 

[azmntman]

:metoo: any thief. I'd bout rather catch em in the act and put a stop to it than call the police. But I still dont have 40 acres and a back hoe :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

Mention of "runout" was made earlier in this topic.
Maybe you know what this means but I suspect there are some who don't.

When folks talk about runout in a barrel it means the bore is not running parallel with the outside.

For instance the bore might be close to the left flat at the breech and close to the right flat at the muzzle.

This was pretty common back in the 1970's and Douglas barrels were known for having it.

Runout can be a problem if the person who installed the barrel put it into the stock without allowing for it.

The old rule about installing a barrel with runout was to locate the thin area, where the bore was nearest to the outside at the breech to the bottom (nearest to the stock).
That locates the muzzle end of the barrel with the thin area at the top.
In other words, the bore is pointed a bit upward at the muzzle.

If this is done, any problems with where the gun is shooting is easily adjusted by raising or lowering the sights.

The worst thing the builder could do is to locate the barrel in the stock so the bore was pointing right or left.
If this was done, the sights would need to be drifted right or left to sight the gun in and the location of the sights would look screwy.

 

[White Oak]

Appreciate all replies.
Just curious. If 12L14 would be an inferior chemistry, what would have been used for barrels by Thompson Center, Lyman, or CVA? Are their factory barrels a different material?

Thanks again,
Ed

 

[don hepler]

I have several rifles, and one is a .36 Douglas. It is very accurate and with 20-35 grs. of powder, it shouldn't be a problem.

You didn't mention caliber, and barrel size.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Back in the seventies Douglas barrels were considered to be the premium barrels used at Friendship and other top of the line ranges.(I have one on my target rifle I built then ). The quality was top of the line, but a lawsuit put Douglas out if the muzzle loading business. I would have no worries about shooting one if I could find one! :idunno: :idunno:

 

[faste350]

I have always heard that the gun that blew up, was loaded with smokeless powder, thus the lawsuit, rumors :idunno: