Dragoon vs 1860 Army?

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’m knee deep in my new Pietta 1851 London Navy and am already pondering my next cap and ball revolver. I already own an 1858 Remington and enjoy it, along with this 1851 Navy.

For my new one, I am torn between the 3rd model Dragoon and the 1860 Army:

Thoughts? The big Dragoon (no I am not interested in a Walker thx) is impressive and packs an awesome thumping factor, but is heavy and bulky to carry and can beat itself up. The 1860 army is less impressive but is beautiful and more practical and easy to carry. Still, the Dragoon is really cool, but so is the 1860 Army.

Buying both is not an option due to my budget at the time. Thoughts?

 

[hawkeye2]

The Dragoons are impressive and I would love to have one but the Army is far more practical. I think you would get in a lot more shooting with an easier to carry and handle gun (even more so with a Navy but you already know about them). Just the thought of lugging my Walker from home to my shooting bench can be discouraging at times. Though it can be fun you don't really need all the firepower of a Dragoon and it can get a little old after a while.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Having both, it’s like choosing your favorite child...

 

[Treestalker]

Imagine a Colt Navy in .44 caliber, steel frame, a better front sight with longer grips that fit and a barrel 1/2" longer and round, also a creeping loading lever and a neat smooth overall look. That's the 1860 Army, the choice of professional soldiers.

 

[Enfield58]

I have both. If I had to choose, I would get the 1860 Army for the following reasons:

1) It is lighter which makes it easier to shoot over longer sessions. You will get tired of holding up the Dragoon with one hand if you have a lengthy shooting session. Both are fun to shoot but the 1860 Army can be held up on target longer. If you have a guest or young person that doesn't have much strength in their arms they can shoot the 1860 Army easier.

2) Along with the light weight, is the easier carrying it in a holster if you predisposed of taking hiking or hunting with you.

3) Both of mine are 2nd generation colts. The Dragoon is very finicky with how deep the barrel wedge is inserted in the hole. Pushed too deep and the back of the barrel is force against the face of the cylinder which prevents it from turning. I don't have that issue with the 1860 Army. However, I don't know if that problem exists with the Italian replicas.

4) You will use less powder per charge with the 1860 Army and still have the same amount of fun as you would with a heavier charge in the Dragoon. That saves you money over time.

5) If your budget permits it later on, you may want to get a 2nd 1860 Army as opposed to the Dragoon. I say that because, if you fancy yourself a modern day Josey Wales, shooting TWO 1860 Army revolvers is easier than two Dragoons or one of each.

Try doing this with a couple of Dragoons...



Note: Remember to spit before you draw your revolvers.

 

[Notchy Bob]

The grips are different, too. The 1860 Army is considered more ergonomic, even more so than the Model P cartridge revolvers. In fact, people would sometimes take the grip frames from the old 1860 Army percussion revolvers and put them on their Colt Peacemakers. The Dragoons have a lot of cachet, but there are reasons for the evolution of those old forty-fours toward the 1860 Army model. Even the loading lever is improved.

My dad had an original 1860 that we used to shoot when I was a kid. It was great fun. My brother still has it.

With all of that said, though, I'll have to admit I bought a 1st Model Dragoon from Mike Brackett last year, after having him do his "Outlaw Mule" action job on it. It is a nice revolver. Check out Goon's Gun Works - Services

Really, I don't think you'll go wrong either way. Both of your choices would be fun to shoot. I chose the Dragoon because it was from the historical timeframe that interested me more.

Notchy Bob

 

[sourdough]

The Walker weighs 4 lbs. 9 oz. The Dragoon weighs a scant 7 oz. less.

I have the Uberti Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon and it is a chunk but it makes a big kaboom.

For comparison:

ASM 1860 Army .44 2 lbs. 8 oz.
Uberti Whitneyville Hartford (Transitional Walker) Dragoon .44 4 lbs. 2 oz.
Pietta 1851 Navy .36 2nd Model Dragoon (pure fantasy) 2 lbs. 7 oz.



Your choice.

Regards,

Jim

 

[TNGhost]

The 1860 is one of the nicest handling revolvers to me and I favor the grips over those of the navy types.

The Dragoons are BIG ( I have a 1st model) but you see fewer of them, the 1860 being nearly up there in prevalence with the 1851 and 1858. So they are kind of unique and eye catching from that perspective, but IMHO, the 1860, especially with the fluted chambers is one of the sleekest and most attractive of any revolver, BP or modern, ever made.

As far as power, Pietta recommends 35 grains of 3F as maximum in all of their BP revolvers.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/pietta-recommended-powder-loads/
Uberti recommends 30 grains of 3F in all of their BP revolvers, including the Dragoons.

https://www.uberti-usa.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/black_powder_revolvers.pdf
So if you stick by the manufacturer's recommendations, the Pietta 1860 is going to be more powerful.

Now we all know that the Dragoon will hold more powder and you will likely have better luck getting good accuracy with larger loads in the Dragoon, which many have gotten 50 grains or more in.

Also you would have to consider which kind of powder. Swiss, grade for grade is more energetic than GOEX, with 4f giving more thump than 3f and Hodgdon 777 is more energetic than that. In fact if you note the below chart (which is kind of handy) you will see that 30 grains of 777 will get a round ball going at over 1000 fps out of a 8 1/2"C&B revolver barrel.

So there is plenty pf power to be had in an 1860, Yes more in the Dragoon, and you may be able to squeeze another 100 fps and change out of it, but you pay for that in handling and carry weight and convenience. Which in my opinion, if you are buying the pistol based on power alone, just is not worth the small gain for the Dragoon. With either you are going to be in .44 Special ballistics territory albeit with lighter projectile in the roundball, but at faster speeds.

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

Either way you'll be pleased, and eventually will likely end up with the other one as well.

 

[rodwha]

I’d figure that having a smaller .44 already you’d want a horse pistol instead. The 2nd Model was supposed to be my first revolver until I got a ROA instead. Now I’d prefer a Walker due to the history of it. But it sits low on my list of wants.

 

[Lippy984]

Wow, this post certainly sparked a new interest in handguns for me. I want an 1860 now. Can anyone tell me who makes a good reproduction that isn’t crazy expensive?

 

[Enfield58]

Wow, this post certainly sparked a new interest in handguns for me. I want an 1860 now. Can anyone tell me who makes a good reproduction that isn’t crazy expensive?

I have had good experiences with the Pietta. The only other advice I can give is that whatever brand you buy, you should get the Slix-Shot nipples for them. The revolvers go bang every time with those nipples.

I also cannot say enough good about the Polish capper. I have several of them and have got several as gifts for friends. It's the easiest and fastest way to cap a revovlver.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've got both 1860 Armies and a 2nd Model Dragoon. Both are extremely accurate with a 23 gr 3F load. You can only show off & fire so many full-power loads in the Dragoon until the .44 mag shooters at adjacent tables no longer are impressed and amazed.

An 1860 Army sees much more range time than my Dragoon.

 

[rodwha]

My 2013 Pietta NMA still has factory nipples. It goes bang every single hammer drop. Rem #10’s fit nicely.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I use my Dragoon for hunting and the 1860 for fun. The Dragoon is a bit heavy for belt carry and will drag your pants down This in turn keeps your left hand busy holding them up.

 

[wb78963]

I went with the 1860 Army with fluted cylinder. Coolest thing going when clipped to my shoulder stock.
But mostly the 1851 Navy .44 caliber fantasy snub nose guns get the most shooting. With the snubby all the weight is right in your hand instead of hanging out in front. Not a long range gun, but with practice 25 yards is quite doable.

 

[sourdough]

Anything like this?

ASM 1860 Army full-fluted cylinder 1994/BD with an unknown manufacturer of the shoulder stock. It is tiger stripe maple stained dark.


Regards,

Jim

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks gang! I went to Sportsman’s today and they had an Uberti Dragoon. LOVED the heft and beefy, manly look and feel.

It was just a display model but if they had any more in the back, I’d of walked out of there with it,

So yeah... still debating, but the Dragoon is just SO COOL even if not the most practical?

 

[MarkItZero]

Least practical often = most fun

And honestly cap and ball revolvers really aren't all that practical anyways so I'd vote to get whichever one is on sale now. Sounds likely you'll own both models soon enough and it's just a question of which to buy first

 

[Bob McBride]

Though it’s against my core values, I vote for the 1860 Army. She’s a much more ‘tame’ shooter, with no whiff of the ‘novelty’. She’s the safe bet

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

You’re right, gang! I probably will just end up having to buy them eventually.

I’m having a riot with my new Navy, and will be shooting it tomorrow with a new load at the range to see how it groups.