Dragoon vs 1860 Army?

[fourbore]

The main use of these guns on this forum is gun club activity and it actually does not matter which 44 you shoot at the club if you load the same 23 grains FFF. Get what puts a smile on your face. The difference only matters if you actually use these guns, as guns, as was the origional intent. I think the differencs is obvious, you trade off weight and bulk for power. I prefer the dragoon. I dont think it has anything to do with ego or showing off. I prefer the bigger gun without the experimental design bugs and impratical excess of the walker. For small game the 1860 would be better to carry.

I like Uberti, no hesitation on that. I firmly belive they are a little better qualty maker for a small up charge.

I generally consider those who say both to this type on online debate/questions are take the easy out. In this case, the OP really should consider that. Or handle both and make up his own mind. Do you really need some else to tell you what YOU are supposed to like? There are no hidden secrets here. What you see and hold is what you get. It is not not like comparing a Remington to Colt. It is more/less the same gun. The question is what size do you want. That goes from baby, to navy, to army then dragoon. Pick one!

 

[jlatz]

I have had a Cimarron Uberti 1860 Army for some time. It does a good job at the range.

 

[wb78963]

In my armory of percussion revolvers there is only one Dragoon that I call the Fourth Model with a fluted cylinder and sights mounted on the barrel which is a fantasy gun that is under construction.
At one time there was an 1847 Walker that was shot about 12 rounds cleaned and sold.
Those big revolvers were made to carry in pommel holster on a horse and if you think guns are expensive wait until you get the horse needed to carry the guns.
My favorite is the Capt. Schaeffer 1851 Navy because it is stunning to look at and fun to shoot. Next is any one of the 1851 Navy fantasy snubbies in .44 caliber.
At least that is my opinion and like belly buttons every body has one.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk

 

[Alexei]

What a great discussion. I've owned many, if not all these over the last 50 years. I was lucky enough to have gone to High School with the warehouse manager for Navy Arms. He often let me run amok when the "coast was clear". The difference in quality between the Uberti and the Pietta have narrowed over the years. Of course, all these opinions are pretty much based on personal choice, but few can argue with the grace and handling properties of the 1860. If it hadn't been for the fire during the CW at the Hartford plant, many thousands more would have been made and used.

 

[Eras Gone]

Don't underestimate the M1860 with a service charge of 25 grains and a conical bullet. Do you really need 35 grains and conical from the Dragoon? This is a different gun in the video, but the same service charge and bullet weight that was the standard for the Model 1860 when it was in service.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, Mark. Love the vids! I mainly stick to roundies as I don’t hunt with them and don’t cast.

 

[Treestalker]

In my armory of percussion revolvers there is only one Dragoon that I call the Fourth Model with a fluted cylinder and sights mounted on the barrel which is a fantasy gun that is under construction.
At one time there was an 1847 Walker that was shot about 12 rounds cleaned and sold.
Those big revolvers were made to carry in pommel holster on a horse and if you think guns are expensive wait until you get the horse needed to carry the guns.
My favorite is the Capt. Schaeffer 1851 Navy because it is stunning to look at and fun to shoot. Next is any one of the 1851 Navy fantasy snubbies in .44 caliber.
At least that is my opinion and like belly buttons every body has one.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk

I too, have a .44 cal. snubbie '1851' that is fast becoming a favorite. I put it together from 2 different 1851s that matched up. It has a 3 1/4" barrel and a new taller post sight up front that hits dead on at 10 yards, no shooting high, no windage. Love it. The other 1851 looks new except I reshaped the grips to a closer Colt configuration, ala Duelist. Had a 3rd model Dragoon back in the dream time, but 45gr of 3f busted the arbor at the wedge. My brother made a 'cab driver's special' out of it.

 

[Gee Dog]

I love Dragoons, especially Third Mods, but get an 1860 Army. Then, get on a horse and move around and shoot it. You’ll be a life long convert. Works real well a’foot too as many here will attest. If you don’t have an Army then get one. You will wonder why you waited.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I use my Dragoon for hunting and the 1860 for fun. The Dragoon is a bit heavy for belt carry and will drag your pants down This in turn keeps your left hand busy holding them up.

I've found that the best rig for the big Colts is the Sam Browne style with the shoulder strap. Keeps the holster where it belongs and distributes the weight more evenly.

 

[rodwha]

Don't underestimate the M1860 with a service charge of 25 grains and a conical bullet. Do you really need 35 grains and conical from the Dragoon? This is a different gun in the video, but the same service charge and bullet weight that was the standard for the Model 1860 when it was in service.

Looking at the pic of the fired bullet it appears as though the base obturated.Is it possible to measure the bands again?

 

[Eras Gone]

Looking at the pic of the fired bullet it appears as though the base obturated.Is it possible to measure the bands again?

Rodwha, I'm certain the bullet bumped up on firing. The rings on that bullet are .430 for the bottom and .435 on the top. Even the bottom bumped up enough to engage the top of the lands which are about .440. Sorry, I've lost track of where I put this bullet after the test. If I can find it, I'll measure it.

 

[vintovka]

I have owned no less than 4 dragoons all for very short time. I cannot believe our smaller forefathers could heft them.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I've really enjoyed the thread. When I was just a kid (probably 14 or 15) my dad got Navy model reproduction revolvers for one of my brothers and me for Christmas. He traded his for another firearm at some point and to this day, I have no clue where mine has gotten (may have been sold by a parent at a garage sale, may have been stolen by a teenage friend, etc.. That was 40 years ago). Recently I've been thinking about getting another one just for plinking and for fun and I'm torn between a Navy model .36 and an Army .44. Hopefully the discussion will continue some, because I enjoy the topic.

 

[rodwha]

I've really enjoyed the thread. When I was just a kid (probably 14 or 15) my dad got Navy model reproduction revolvers for one of my brothers and me for Christmas. He traded his for another firearm at some point and to this day, I have no clue where mine has gotten (may have been sold by a parent at a garage sale, may have been stolen by a teenage friend, etc.. That was 40 years ago). Recently I've been thinking about getting another one just for plinking and for fun and I'm torn between a Navy model .36 and an Army .44. Hopefully the discussion will continue some, because I enjoy the topic.

A .36 is more economical on the lead and powder. I’ve not been around anyone firing one, but I can say the .44 has a nice low boom that turns heads. Almost every range trip I would have at least one or two come by and ask questions. The .44 can be used for hunting as well, though some use conicals and energetic powder in their .36 for this as well (I’m more of a large caliber guy when it comes to handguns).

 

[Enfield58]

A .36 is more economical on the lead and powder. I’ve not been around anyone firing one, but I can say the .44 has a nice low boom that turns heads. Almost every range trip I would have at least one or two come by and ask questions. The .44 can be used for hunting as well, though some use conicals and energetic powder in their .36 for this as well (I’m more of a large caliber guy when it comes to handguns).

Don’t forget that Wild Bill Hickock used a .36 1851 Navy to kill Davis Tutt from 75 yards. Just sayin.’

 

[rodwha]

Don’t forget that Wild Bill Hickock used a .36 1851 Navy to kill Davis Tutt from 75 yards. Just sayin.’

Most likely a .36, though there’s speculation that it was a .44 (Dragoon?). To be fair a .31 through the heart would have done the same.

For hunting (pigs are an option here) I want something that makes a big hole even if it doesn’t expand, and has heft to penetrate. I’m not going to try a .36 on one to see if it works well or not knowing that with energetic powders we’re looking at the equivalent of a .38 Spl +P when I can use something larger and more akin to a .45 ACP/Schofield with energetic powder. A wide meplat on a .37 caliber bullet might make all thedifference though.

 

[smoothshooter]

Get the Army.

 

[smoothshooter]

Don’t forget that Wild Bill Hickock used a .36 1851 Navy to kill Davis Tutt from 75 yards. Just sayin.’

Actually , we don’t know for sure what gun Hickok shot Tutt with.
I sit typing this about 8 miles from where Tutt was shot and is buried.

Years ago I researched this story some, and I do not recall seeing anything in the court testimony or witness accounts that indicated what gun Hickok had. He was known to have used both .44 and .36 caliber pistols previously. Maybe I missed something.
Unfortunately for us, details like that were not considered noteworthy by most people most of the time.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Actually , we don’t know for sure what gun Hickok shot Tutt with.
I sit typing this about 8 miles from where Tutt was shot and is buried.

Years ago I researched this story some, and I do not recall seeing anything in the court testimony or witness accounts that indicated what gun Hickok had. He was known to have used both .44 and .36 caliber pistols previously. Maybe I missed something.
Unfortunately for us, details like that were not considered noteworthy by most people most of the time.

Yes, I read an account that claimed he used a Dragoon and rested on a fence post.

 

[rodwha]

75 yds is one heckofa shot. How many could hit a man-sized vitals area at that distance, off-hand, and knowing the opponent will also be firing?

Do we know whether or not he used conicals along with ball? A .37 cal ball wouldn’t have much oomph at 75 yds. There’s people who think that’s the edge of humane for hunting deer from a rifle firing a heavier ball, and at that distance the rifle’s ball has much more velocity/energy than a pistol ball at 7 yds.