Drawfiling Billboard off Lyman GPR Flinter

[azsixshooter]

Hi, I'm building my first flintlock from a Lyman GPR Kit. I found the "billboard" information on one of the flats of the barrel to be quite excessive and I would like to remove it. I have not started drawfiling the barrel yet, but I ran a fine mill file over the unwanted engraving and it seems like it will take a fair amount of metal removal to make it disappear. I have a few questions:

1) Is there any reason to NOT attempt to file down that one flat to remove the "billboard"?

2) The serial number is on the same flat as the billboard. Normally I would never remove a serial number from a firearm, but I was wondering if it is legally required on a black powder muzzleloader. I doubt if I will ever sell this rifle since I am putting so much effort into building it so if it is legal to remove the serial number along with the billboard I would like to do so. If not, then I wonder how bad it will look with the base of the flat being larger (where I would leave the serial number) than the rest of the flat where it seems I'd have to file considerably to remove the other engravings.

3) Since this is a half-stock Hawken should I draw file all flats or only the portions of the flats that are showing outside of the stock?

Thanks for any specific advice related to my questions or any general tips you might have to offer someone green like me on completing my first build. I have been filing, sanding and polishing the triggerguard for weeks now and it looks like a mirror. Maybe that is bad for the browning process or maybe just unnecessary to take it to that extreme but I mention it to demonstrate that I am committed to taking my time on this build and not rushing anything. Today was St. Patrick's Day, if I could have this completed by Independence Day that would be fine with me. Any sooner without cutting corners or compromising workmanship would be even better.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[BrownBear]

1) Is there any reason to NOT attempt to file down that one flat to remove the "billboard"?

For my eye and I think other folks, it's going to be pretty obvious if you file only one flat. For one thing the surface is likely to be different after browning or bluing. For another, if the impressions are as deep as you say, you could very well end up with that flat wider and the ones on either side narrower.

 

[leverfred]

What about wire wheel to clean grooves in letters, filling with liquid metal then draw filling before browning?

 

[BrownBear]

filling with liquid metal then draw filling before browning

Dunno what you mean by liquid metal, but I'm very suspicious that it could behave differently in browning than the barrel steel. Certainly experiment with it, but results with rust browning ala LMF are much better when all surfaces are draw filed. If I was going to be draw filing the rest of the barrel anyway, why not take care of business on the impressions at the same time?

 

[Ames]

I'd only draw file it as much as the other flats in the normal building sequence of things.
We all have or have had one of those guns, and we all know the stamp is there.
I learned not to see it anymore when I shoot mine.

 

[BrownBear]

It's worth pointing out that LMF recommends sanding. I've experimented a bit, and the courser the sandpaper, the heavier the resulting browning effect. Using 180 grit, the impressions weren't completely gone after sanding, but virtually disappeared in the course of a good browning that followed the sanding. With minimal carding, you'd have to know the impressions were there to find them, and only the deepest were still vaguely visible.

 

[Robby]

Steve, it is not engraving in the true sense of the word, it is stamping and as such it does not remove metal but displaces it. I have done this on a Traditions barrel, very carefully with a somewhat rounded flat nose punch and a hammer, gently tapping the raised metal back down into the troughs created by the stamping, then filing. Its not a perfect solution but it works. If you have filed already then the metal is gone and I don't think you can file the flat down far enough to remove the lettering.
Robby

 

[Rifleman1776]

Normally I would never remove a serial number from a firearm, but I was wondering if it is legally required on a black powder muzzleloader.

Others have addressed the how to or how not to of removing those stampings. To answer your question about ser. #s, they are not legally required and may be removed. Some states or local municipalities might have different laws, hard to say. Custom built ml rifles are not usually serial numbered. You, didn't ask but that has never stopped my from having an opinion. ;-) I wouldn't bother removing that billboard. You could easily end up with a very ugly spot on that barrel that you will hate worse than the words.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Most advise re-stamping the s/n on a bottom flat, maybe along with the brand.

Think about the recent Lyman recall ... wouldn’t YOU want to mnow if that barrel was exempt from it?

 

[Phil Coffins]

I've assembled several Lyman kits and all ways draw file the bill board markings off. First I tap down the raised lettering then draw file before sanding to the finish I prefer. This one is the only one I have around now and you will notice some tracings on one flat. The top flat I reduced the marks but left them clearly. The warnings are gone yet the barrel still looks proper.
IMG_0408 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

 

[billraby]

Filing that out will make that flat larger than the rest. File all the flats the same amount to get them to match up again. Probably the best way to deal with it is to get a welder and fill in the letters with metal. Then file it smooth.

Polished metal does not really work with browning. I finish it to 220 grit. The surface of the metal will rust away and it will be smoother than that when it is done.

 

[Black Hand]

People have had success by using a round-nose punch to upset the metal from the edges of the letters/numbers to fill the stamping then drawfiling enough to smooth the surface. This way you don't need to file to the bottom of the letters/numbers and end up with wonky/uneven flats. I can't say I'd recommend welding on a barrel because welding heat could cause the barrel to warp and/or create scaling in the bore...

 

[hawkeye2]

Filing that out will make that flat larger than the rest. File all the flats the same amount to get them to match up again. Probably the best way to deal with it is to get a welder and fill in the letters with metal. Then file it smooth.

NOT! Welding will ruin the barrel. It will result in tight spots in the bore and scale in the bore unless you fill it with an inert gas (takes care of the scale only). The weld will shrink more than it expands and will bow the barrel and may twist it also when it cools and no, you won't be able to straighten it. The good news is that it can be used for rebar if you are pouring a floor in your shop and it would make a dandy jack handle.

 

[azsixshooter]

Thanks everyone for all the quick info. I already went over the stamping a little with a fine mill file, I probably removed any raised metal that was there but I'll try tapping it down anyway before I continue just in case it helps a bit.

Thanks again!

 

[necchi]

That "tapping it down" thing,, works goodley.
The thing/goal is to remove the ugly from the common viewers eye,, and as BrownBear said a good rust brown helps cover a lot of sins.
Point is; full depth removal isn't always needed (sometimes it's deep!). You might still see a few lines,, but average folks will be looking more at the beautiful finish you have on the wood and the fine job you did inletting,, not dissecting a section of the barrel to see if you left any marks from the factory stamp.
Add a pewter nose cap or a tiny inlay at the thumb or cheek and they won't even see the barrel .
The neat thing about filing, sanding and browning is it's easy. If you don't like it,, you just do it again. It's not day's of labor, just a couple hours work, and a few days of waiting for the brown again for sure,, but waiting ain't labor.

 

[Vaino]

Don't understand why some stampings on a bbl bothers some people..... but if it does, go through all the work to remove something that at 2 ft away, is invisible.

My first MLer was assembled from a TC Hawken kit {still have it} and in the process of eliminating the cheek slapping and a few other objectionable things I didn't like about this gun, never thought that the bbl stamping detracted from the "looks", so didn't remove it.

Like has been said...."it's your gun so do what you will w/ it"......Fred

 

[Eric Krewson]

One time I had trouble timing the breechplug on a GM barrel, when I finally got it to seal the breech perfectly the GM logo was on the top oblique flat. I was tired of fooling with the breechplug fit so I hit the lettering with a flat punch and many, many, light tapes from a small hammer. The lettering was only slightly visible after I tapped everything back into place, it just needed a little draw filing remove the last trace of the logo.

 

[Melnic]

It is SOOOO worth it.
My first Kit was a Lyman Great Plains 54 and the billboard was hidious!
Draw filed.

My recent Enfield with a round barrel had to use progressively finer sheets of sandpaper. Again, worth it.

Here is a shutterfly page with the original billboard and the finished gun. I was trying to find a pic of just after the drawfiling.
I think I recall taking the appropriate grit of sand paper after the draw file to finish the grain consistant with the rest of the rifle.
I left just the right side and the Sn

https://myrifleshooting.shutterfly.com/141

EDIT: here they are

 

[Pete G]

a few days of waiting for the brown again for sure,, but waiting ain't labor.

Sure does seem like it sometimes

 

[crankshaft]

Even if the letters are removed, everyone looking at it still knows it's a Lyman