Duglas Barrel ??

My brother gave me a 32 cal octagon straight barrel with 8 rifleing in it, and said it is a Douglas Barrel.
It is 3/4 inch from flat side to flat side across the barrel but is 13/16 if you measure from points of octagon to opposing point on opposite side.
Is this a 13/16 barrel or a 3/4?
There aren't any marking on it at the breech or breech plug.
Has anyone ever heard of them and how good of a barrel are they?
Thanks Woody

 

[RMillet]

It's a 3/4. Years ago Douglas was one of the big names in black powder rifle barrels. Don't appear to make black powder barrels anymore. Website is here. I seem to recall they drilled their barrels from near finished stock. As such there could be some runout so you'd want to inspect it closely and make sure any runout ran vertically otherwise you may not have enough windage available in your sights to get it to hit paper. 'Course all this is from memory and it's possible I'm remembering wrong. Gettin' old is h**l.

Dick

 

[Birddog6]

If it is a Douglas barrel, it will be stamped GR Douglas .32 CAL on the breech end of the barrel . If the muzzle is unfinished, it will have the caliber & the rate of twist stamped on it. .32 & 1-48 or whatever.

Or at least the ones I have had in the shop were this way & also am looking at one now. :results:

 

[B.Habermehl]

Muskrat is correct. The barrels were drilled in finished octagon stock. The breech end usually had run out. It was usually recomended that the thin side be the bottom flat when the barrel is breeched up. They had a reputation for being good shooting barrels none the less. BJH

 

[Dave Poss]

I built my rifle in 1981 and used it for years target shooting and hunting on a weekly basis...Put it up for several years but for the last 1 1/2 years have been shooting it again in matches. It has a Douglas xx barrel and still cuts a one hole group at 50yds.(off a rest)after thousands of rounds have gone through it. :thumbsup:. So, big YES on douglas being a quality barrel. I understand that the XX on my barrel meant it was drilled perfectly dead center in the steel of the barrel. I know my sights are about as centered on the top flat as possible. It's a shame they quit making black powder barrels. Congrats on having a quality "relic".

 

Thanks for the info Dick.
I will cccheck the run out before i use it.
Right now I am building a 32 cal and will build the grandson with this barrel in the future.
Woody

 

Thanks longrifle.
I figured my brother remembered what kind it was. It is some what semi brown from the years of hanging in the rafters in his basement. ( probably why I can't find any markings on it). He believed it to be a 1 in 60 twist.
how can a fella tell what the twist ratio is in a barrel if it isn't marked?
Woody

 

Thanks folks.. Looks like it will make the grandson a perfect piece to start with.
I WIll clean it up a bit more to see what is stamped on it.
Woody

 

[Ohio Joe]

I too will add that I have a .50 x 1" Douglas barrel that I cut from 43 inches to 37 inches and made a cross stick rifle out of it. It is in my opinion an excellent barrel and I have found it is capable of excellent grouping. I've won quite a bit with it! The depth of rifling is .008, and it has a 1 in 66 twist.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Woodhick,

It is true that Douglas ML barrels were drilled and rifled
from finished octagon stock and were usuall very good shooters. At least mine were and also others I saw over the years.

I believe that all calibers used 1-66 rifling. 45 caliber and up definately used 1-66.

The Douglas barrels were maufactured in 2 grades; standard and premium. Standard grade alway had some bore run-out from breech to muzzle. Premium grade was guaranted to be bored straight, on center from breech to muzzle.

Premium grade barrels were stamped 2 X's (XX) inside an oval, along with the Douglas name near the threaded breech.
Barrel lengths were 36" and 42".

I never saw a Douglas barrel that was not so marked. Even today Douglas still marks their barrels the same way.

Douglas ML barrels were "cut-rifled" with equal width grooves and lands. The grooves were .010"-.011" deep. The barrels seem to shoot best with bore size balls (like .500 balls in a 50 caliber barrel) and .018"-.020" thick patching. I do not recall that radius groove rifling was used, only straight, flat grooves.

My 50 caliber Douglas barreled rifles won many matches for me. One was re-breeched on a TC Renegade for a friend and is still a match winner.

Hope this will help you

Best Regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[BLAHMAN]

I picked up a Douglas barrel from a friend of mine, however, it was not stamped as mentioned. I know they are Douglas barrels because when they stopped making the muzzleloading barrels there was a batch put aside. The guy I got my barrel from is Wally Hart of R W Hart and Sons. They specialize in making high power rifles that perform in the super shoot sports across the country. He swapped out some of his stuff for the remaining barrels and they were only had in 45 or 54. I got a 54 and built a rifle from it. Damn thing shoots great! The reason, as I understand it, that Douglas stopped making BP barrels is because they were using 12L14 steel. This steel has lead in it and can burst. They were deemed unsafe and there is much discussion today in regards to that. Anything can burst if not properly cared for....balls halfway down, overloading, using SMOKELESS powder, double balling, extreme heavy charges, barrel obstructions....you name it and it can happen. They are good barrels and they saftey factor concerning them is (in my opinion) bull puckey. If those barrels were SOooooo unsafe, then we would see many, many, many injuries and a daily basis...just think how many of these barrels are out there....there are countless thousands, yet it doesn't occur. There are shoots held every weekend across the USA and as far as I know, there have been no barrels burst that have been the dreaded 12L14 steel.
You got a good barrel, if it is a Douglas. You may want to check the twist to see how fast it is...good luck with the project.

 

[hound dog]

Woodhick;
I was building rifles in the 70's and 80's and used a lot of Douglas barrels. Great barrels, never saw one that wouldn't shoot. They also released a few "seconds" that didn't quite meet their criteria for runout or maybe had a "ding" in the rifling or something along those lines. I don't remember these barrels having the Douglas stamp on them. I also don't remember Douglas making anything smaller than 13/16 across the flats, even on their .32 caliber barrels. I do seem to remember that Numerich Arms made a barrel similar to the Douglas' and that they may have made some in the .32 caliber 3/4 across the flats configuration. They also made them from the cold drawn octagon stock. If I remember correctly the Numerich barrels were only marked with a tiny cartouch near the breech. Anybody else remember these?

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings All,

Blahman's comments about the use of lead alloy steel in Douglas barrels (and others) are quite valid. I believe there was another part of that story that had to do with a large order of barrel steel being received that was of such poor quality that the Douglas management refused to use it.
The supplier or mill refused to replace the steel. It was not long after this that Douglas discontined producing ML barrels.

I can also see why, in view of the way lawyers have become so law suit crazy, Douglas and others would simply decide to protect themselves and call it quits.

At the same time how many of the arm-chair experts who critisize that lead alloyed steel are quite content to shoot an original ML with a hand forge-welded barrel where the the forge welded over lapped seam runs the full length of the barrel. Add to that a breech plug wih file cut or die-forged threads of the gunsmiths own design.

NOW, tell me which one is more dangerous.

Even today, we have a company that puts out (IMO) A ML
with a potential dangerous design. A breech plug with a 11/16" diameter thread is used on all sizes from 13/16" to 1" across the flats in all calibers.

So now, tell me what is the threaded breech wall thickness of a 13/16" across the flats with a 11/16" breech thread?

PRETTY DURN THIN: isn't it? And, what if the breech plug does not make up all the way to the internal thread breech shoulder by half a thread? In that case, there is a portion of that thin wall section that is not covered by the breech.

For a few friends who wanted to relace these barrels with a custom barrel for RB competion, I have centered the factory breech plug in my lathe and turned the threaded tenon to a smaller standard NF thread.

One should also be aware of creating this problem when fitting a custom breech to a custom barrel, particularly with barrels measuring 13/16" and 7/8" across the flats.

Calculate your finished breech wall thickness before actually threading the breech. You just might want to reconsider and use a smaller threaded diameter breech plug.

In anticipation of the incoming question, No, I will not name the company who is using the the breech set-up I described. I do not want to take a chance of having to face a battery of lawyers and have to spend thousands of dollars
in attorney fees proving my point.

As Blahman so correctly stated, there are many other reasons for a blown up ML barrel than just a lead alloyed
barrel steel.

Mery Christmas & A Happy New Year to All, JLH

 

[Birddog6]

If memory serves me corredctly, (and my memory ain't too accurate at times....) Douglas quit making barrels in the early 80's because of a lawsuit filed against them about a burst barrel, it was either overloaded or shortstarted, can't remember now. Douglas won the suit but with heavy legal fees, as it dragging on forever it seemed & etc... Thus when it was all over, they decided to stop production of the ML barrels because the profit on the ML barrels was more than the cost of the liability & legal fees "could" be, & they continued to make other types of barrels.

As far as the steel used to make the Douglas barrels, that same steel is in the Colerain, Rice & Getz barrels today. Green Mountain uses a different steel that is harder/tougher, thus it takes longer to break in a Grn. Mtn. barrel, etc... :m2c:

 

I man / Lady sure can get a load of info from you fine folks , sure am glad I found this forum.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Woody

 

[Birddog6]

See...... I told ya my memory was questionable...... :redface:

I better restate that :bull:

The profit on the ML barrels was LESS than what the liability & legal fees could be....

Now, that sounds morely better......or morely well versed... or sumptin....... you knowhatimean....

:thumbsup:

 

[waksupi]

I've had Douglas barrels from back in the 70's, maybe even late 60's, with no markings on them. I also got one of thier Ultra barrels last winter for a .358 Winchester I was building. It shoots under an inch with no problem. And there were absolutely no markings on the barrel.

To determine the twist of a barrel, you can make a line down a dowel with a jag attached, keeping the line straight. Insert the jag into the barrel with a patch, with the mark indexed up. Push the rod in. Usually with a ML, you go one half revolution on the mark, and then measure, and double the measurement. This gives you the twist, or darn close to it. Same works on a modern rifle, but you can go for a full revolution there.

 

[Snowshoe]

I have a sqirrel rifle with a 1-66 douglas barrel 42" long,it is a tack driver. I use .018 patches and .310 balls with 40-50gr pyrodex p. at 50yards i get quarter sized groups with it.
snowshoe

 

[fatboy]

Many moons ago I was told that Douglas was the realy only prod made barrel maker for the Ml world some of the older fellas at the club stated this . I have a .36 southern style shoots well with 45 gr 3/f loaded this down to 15 gr. and it does well to have heard some complaints of haing to use a hvy charge to get decent accuracy but I cant say mine is like that .

 

[Birddog6]

An easy way to find the rate of twist is this.

Use a Tight patch/jag on a cleaning rod with a bearing in the handle.
On the end of the muzzle make a mark with a marker at 12'clock & 9 o'clock & 3 o/clock & 6 o'clock.
Push the tight oiled patch/jag all the way to the breech with the rod.
Take a piece of masking tape about 1" long & wrap around the cleaning rod even with the end of the muzzle & bring the 2 ends up to 12 o'clock so you have the ends up like a flag at 12 o'clock.
Now slowly pull the rod out til the tape flag is on 9 or 3 o'clock.
Now measure the distance from the muzzle to the flag, multipl times 4 & you have the twist of 1 revolution at ? inches. If it was 12" to the first mark, you have a 1-48 twist. If it was 16.5" to the first mark you have a 1-66 twist..... If it was 17.5 you have a 1-70 twist, etc. :thumbsup: