Dumb bell- head up butt mistake- mine

[M. De Land]

I post this in the hope of deterring anyone else from the same error.
Friday while working on several different gun projects at the same time, a friend dropped by and asked me to look at his flint lock that had a some times "catch" hesitation when the **** dropped.
Thinking it was probably something simple I dropped what I was doing to take a look. I removed the lock out of the stock and examined it closely, finding nothing obvious I began disassembly by **** removal, main spring, stirrup , tumbler bridle, sear and spring.
I noticed the tumber/lock bearing was pretty sloppy and figured that is where the trouble lye. Turned out that the end of the tumbler that goes through the **** needed dressed a bit to allow it to go into the **** more evenly and a bit deeper.
Getting that corrected I reassemble the lock and got the stirrup in up side down.I linked up the mainspring and tried the lock. Feeling a bit of catch just before full **** I heard a small cracking noise and some metal dropped off into my palm. I had just busted off the stirrup finger on the end of the tumbler by getting the stirrup in upside down. I thought it was reversible but upon close examination I saw the the main spring purchase end had larger stirrup lugs.
Called L&R this AM , described the lock, measured the length and found out that it is a Durrs Egg lock.
Cost of the new tumbler was $22.00 plus shipping.
Hope this helps some one else not to make the same error.
The problem with the **** hesitation was that the fly was not operating correctly and hanging up the transition over the half **** notch.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Yep, did that once about 20 years ago. only takes once to learn the lesson. I solved it permanently by not using L&R locks, I hate those little flys they put in those things.

 

[EC121]

The one way stirrup link is a well-known(by some ) gotcha in the L&R locks. Another one is putting the fly in backwards.

 

[Zonie]

That's why I STRONGLY suggest that anyone taking a lock apart should first look at where the mainspring connects with the tumbler.
If it is just a bent finger on the spring resting against a spur or projection on the tumbler there won't be any problem.

If it has a small link connecting the mainspring with the tumbler the very first thing to do is to take a couple of close up pictures of this connecting link (stirrup) and how it looks when it is installed. If you don't have a camera, by all means, get a piece of paper and a pencil and do your best to draw a picture of what things look like. Once the stirrup is out of the lock, there isn't an easy way to figure out which end of it hooks onto the tumbler and which end of it hooks onto the mainspring.
As M. De Land found out, if the stirrup is put in backwards, things can break.

While I'm at it, after the stirrup is removed, stick it and the fly onto a piece of masking tape. That way, you can find them when you are putting the lock back together.

Oh. On TC, Lyman and most Siler locks, the fly can only fit in one way so there isn't a good way to mess things up.
On many L&R locks, the fly is a very small, flat piece of metal with a hole in it. The hole fits over a pin that is cast into the tumbler and because of this, you CAN PUT IT IN UPSIDE DOWN. If this happens, the fly won't work correctly so here again, take a close up picture or sketch exactly what it looks like while it is still on the pin in the tumbler. Doing this is the only way I know of of assuring that you put the fly back in, in the correct position.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you ever lost the fly from your lock or misplaced the stirrup, you would know.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Like Zonie said...... if you're not familiar with the lock, take a photo.
The stirrup will go in properly with the big end down, and shaped like an "S"

 

[Livbucks]

Why is it so easy for Traditions to make a lock without a fly but nobody else can? I can lower my Traditions hammer from full to half without going all the way down and back. Traditions even has an adjustment screw on the sear. You can go from a hard trigger to a hair. Is it really that hard to make a better lock?

 

[Bearkiller]

Why is it so easy for Traditions to make a lock without a fly but nobody else can? I can lower my Traditions hammer from full to half without going all the way down and back. Traditions even has an adjustment screw on the sear. You can go from a hard trigger to a hair. Is it really that hard to make a better lock?

Which model Traditions do you have? I have 3 Traditions rifles and they all have a fly. They all have double triggers also.

 

[EC121]

Your Traditions probably has a single trigger. Doesn't need a fly.

 

[Livbucks]

But my Lyman trade has a single trigger and a fly? My Traditions has a single also.

 

[sawyer04]

I almost did the same thing with the stirrup a couple of months ago, but I looked and double checked with another lock and behold, I was about to goof up.

 

[waarp8nt]

If we are telling stories on ourselves, I once was making a new main spring for an original handgun. I had obtained the proper spring matterial of the correct thickness. It was cut out and ready to bend. I had lit the cutting torch and fixed it to the bench so both hands were free to tend to the spring. It was time to make the big bend before final clean up and hardening/tempering. I'll be darned if I didn't bend it the wrong way, just glad I caught it during the final clean up before hardening & tempering. I kept it as a reminder to take my time, think it through and don't rush it. The next one turned out perfect and the handgun works as it was intended.

Likely non of these things would happen to any of us if didn't take the time to get out of bed or get up off the couch and go to out shops or garages to tinker. I would much rather do something wrong than to no even try! <insert imaginary glass for a toast to those who try>

 

[M. De Land]

Why is it so easy for Traditions to make a lock without a fly but nobody else can? I can lower my Traditions hammer from full to half without going all the way down and back. Traditions even has an adjustment screw on the sear. You can go from a hard trigger to a hair. Is it really that hard to make a better lock?

Actually, a stirrup improves a springs efficiency and lengthens it's life through friction reduction and movement fluidity.

 

[M. De Land]

I post this in the hope of deterring anyone else from the same error.
Friday while working on several different gun projects at the same time, a friend dropped by and asked me to look at his flint lock that had a some times "catch" hesitation when the **** dropped.
Thinking it was probably something simple I dropped what I was doing to take a look. I removed the lock out of the stock and examined it closely, finding nothing obvious I began disassembly by **** removal, main spring, stirrup , tumbler bridle, sear and spring.
I noticed the tumber/lock bearing was pretty sloppy and figured that is where the trouble lye. Turned out that the end of the tumbler that goes through the **** needed dressed a bit to allow it to go into the **** more evenly and a bit deeper.
Getting that corrected I reassemble the lock and got the stirrup in up side down.I linked up the mainspring and tried the lock. Feeling a bit of catch just before full **** I heard a small cracking noise and some metal dropped off into my palm. I had just busted off the stirrup finger on the end of the tumbler by getting the stirrup in upside down. I thought it was reversible but upon close examination I saw the the main spring purchase end had larger stirrup lugs.
Called L&R this AM , described the lock, measured the length and found out that it is a Durrs Egg lock.
Cost of the new tumbler was $22.00 plus shipping.
Hope this helps some one else not to make the same error.
The problem with the **** hesitation was that the fly was not operating correctly and hanging up the transition over the half **** notch.

I think when I get the new tumbler I may have to bush the lock plate to get a good bearing fit. I'm quite sure the fly issue is directly attributable to the sloppy bearing fit of the tumbler through the lock plate allowing the **** to wobble side to side through it's stroke. The fly was correctly installed but was chewing up the edge of the sear(making it hang up) because it was canting a bit from loose bearing fit of the tumbler.

 

[Captjoel]

Those L&R fly's are a real trip alright! I had one fall out of a Bailes lock while I was trying to reassemble it. I always work over a metal tray but that fly seemed to just evaporate into thin air.

I now use a tiny dab of heavy grease to "glue" the little buggers in place as I fit the tumbler against the inside lock plate.

 

[sawyer04]

If we are telling stories on ourselves, I once was making a new main spring for an original handgun. I had obtained the proper spring matterial of the correct thickness. It was cut out and ready to bend. I had lit the cutting torch and fixed it to the bench so both hands were free to tend to the spring. It was time to make the big bend before final clean up and hardening/tempering. I'll be darned if I didn't bend it the wrong way, just glad I caught it during the final clean up before hardening & tempering. I kept it as a reminder to take my time, think it through and don't rush it. The next one turned out perfect and the handgun works as it was intended.

Likely non of these things would happen to any of us if didn't take the time to get out of bed or get up off the couch and go to out shops or garages to tinker. I would much rather do something wrong than to no even try! <insert imaginary glass for a toast to those who try>

Right on, Do something, even if it is wrong,

 

[TFoley]

I ALWAYS dismantle finicky stuff, no matter what it is, but particularly any mechanism that involves a spring, inside a clear plastic bag, AFTER taking pics from every conceivable angle imaginable. A pal reminded me of the need many years back, when he was dismantling his Ruger Old Army over the sink, and watched in horror as that teeny little spring that goes inside the frame and works a little plunger disappeared down the plughole forever. Living here in UK, and having to deal with the almost legendary ineptitude of the Ruger importers, it took over TWO years to get a replacement spring.

 

[M. De Land]

Those L&R fly's are a real trip alright! I had one fall out of a Bailes lock while I was trying to reassemble it. I always work over a metal tray but that fly seemed to just evaporate into thin air.

I now use a tiny dab of heavy grease to "glue" the little buggers in place as I fit the tumbler against the inside lock plate.

Good idea!

 

[PluggedNickel]

That's why I STRONGLY suggest that anyone taking a lock apart should first look at where the mainspring connects with the tumbler.
If it is just a bent finger on the spring resting against a spur or projection on the tumbler there won't be any problem.

If it has a small link connecting the mainspring with the tumbler the very first thing to do is to take a couple of close up pictures of this connecting link (stirrup) and how it looks when it is installed. If you don't have a camera, by all means, get a piece of paper and a pencil and do your best to draw a picture of what things look like. Once the stirrup is out of the lock, there isn't an easy way to figure out which end of it hooks onto the tumbler and which end of it hooks onto the mainspring.
As M. De Land found out, if the stirrup is put in backwards, things can break.

While I'm at it, after the stirrup is removed, stick it and the fly onto a piece of masking tape. That way, you can find them when you are putting the lock back together.

Oh. On TC, Lyman and most Siler locks, the fly can only fit in one way so there isn't a good way to mess things up.
On many L&R locks, the fly is a very small, flat piece of metal with a hole in it. The hole fits over a pin that is cast into the tumbler and because of this, you CAN PUT IT IN UPSIDE DOWN. If this happens, the fly won't work correctly so here again, take a close up picture or sketch exactly what it looks like while it is still on the pin in the tumbler. Doing this is the only way I know of of assuring that you put the fly back in, in the correct position.

Great advice, and trust me, having learned the hard way on some of those unmentionable guns over the years and mostly early on. I always take pictures before I start tearing any guns down. Unless, it's one I could put back together blindfolded from experience. And, come to think of it, lately, due in part to getting older-er, and more frequent brain farts, it ain't a bad idea even then. I keep those pictures too. So next time, I don't have to break out the camera. All I need to do is fire up the laptop, and take a look IICRC, if I can't recall correctly!

 

[reddog]

I ALWAYS dismantle finicky stuff, no matter what it is, but particularly any mechanism that involves a spring, inside a clear plastic bag, AFTER taking pics from every conceivable angle imaginable. A pal reminded me of the need many years back, when he was dismantling his Ruger Old Army over the sink, and watched in horror as that teeny little spring that goes inside the frame and works a little plunger disappeared down the plughole forever. Living here in UK, and having to deal with the almost legendary ineptitude of the Ruger importers, it took over TWO years to get a replacement spring.

I would have been taking that trap apart, right now.