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Early Pennsylvania Flinter

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rmarsett

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I have a question about 18th century rifles of Pennsylvania. I have an ancestor, Peter Kieffer, who was a gunsmith in Lancaster PA in the 1750s and later in York PA. He died in 1766. He was a Palatine German who immigrated to PA about 1730. I know this is asking for speculation but does anyone on this forum know what type of firearms he might have made in this time frame? I am interested in getting a flinter for hunting and thought this might be something to consider.

Thanks, Robin
 
I'll speculate. Much of his work would have been gun repair. New guns he built would probably include smoothbores for general use, fullstocked, fowler style guns perhaps w/o cheekpiece or patchbox. Generic, mid-century Germanic smoothbores. He might have used walnut quite a bit more in that period than later Lancaster gunsmiths did. If he built rifles, he may or may not have been doing primarily restocks of rifles brought from Europe. If he rifled barrels, most of his guns would probably be .50 caliber or larger and barrel lengths 36-46". Sliding wooden patchboxes. I'd look to guns in European collections from his "roots area" to see what they look like. Then go much plainer because the guns in the European collections are often way above American work from the same period because European nobility could afford the good stuff. It was cheaper to import fancier guns from Europe than to build them here.
 
considering that he was a gunsmith in through the F&I War period in PA, I don't see why he couldn't have also made rifles, which bloomed in popularity during that time. There were certainly other gunsmiths in that same area making rifles in that period. The problem is dating such early rifle guns. You might page through the Shumway Rifles of Colonial America volumes and note the Germanic early PA rifles that Shumway 'dated' as second quarter of the 18th century.
 
Robin,
Please let me know if you find out. I have an ancestor who arrived in Virginia from Klings, Saxony in 1717 as part of the second Germanna colony. His name was Cyriacus Fleshman and was a blacksmith. I'm working on my first longrifle, but I'd like to do a project that reflects what this ancestor might have carried. If it was a gun he brought from Germany, maybe a jaeger with regional styling from his home area. Maybe an English smoothbore, if supplied by Gov. Spotswood.
For your Pennsylvania ancestor, something akin to the Edward Marshall rifle or even more Germanic/jaegerish. There is a very nice original iron mounted jaeger on display in the Colonial Williamsburg gunsmith shop. I believe it is ca. 1730.
Good luck.
Larry Luck
 
I appreciate all the good information. After a preliminary search I am leaning towards the Edward Marshall type transition rifle or possibly a Jager. I have never built or assembled a rifle but am considering giving it a try. Does anyone have experience with the Track of the Wolf or Jim Chambers' kits? Are there other kits that I am missing?

Thanks again for all the good information.
 
I'm currently building a Chambers Early Lancaster kit. His kits are the cream of the crop. Track's kits are good too. You can also check out Pecatonica River, they make good kits as well.

You can find more info on kit building in the Builder's Bench area. Realize these aren't snap-together kits, they require a lot of work, tools, and patience.
 
Don't forget, many "germans" from the Palatinate were originally protestant refugees from further east - Silesia,Bohemia and even Transylvania. You may want to familiarise yourself with firearms decoration in this part of the world. :m2c:
 
The majority of the Germans in PA (at least during the first quarter or so of the 18th century) were Anabaptists of one form or another (Mennonite, Amish) and were from the Pfalz (the Palatinate). Previously, the Pfalz had been a safe haven but in the late 16th century, the ruler of the land revoked the tolerances put in place by his forebears (the names and specifics I don't remember...haven't looked at it in a long while). Many of these people were originally from Switzerland who went to the Pfalz for toleration. Quite a few of the immigrants to America came directly from Switzerland. By the middle of the 18th century, the majority of Germans in PA were Protestants (Lutheran and Reformed, with a smattering of Moravians) and were from all over the German lands.

Gun styling from the Pfalz...good question. For the most part, "schools" like we know them for American guns did not really exist in Germany. There ARE some styles that are specific to certain regions, but to a great degree, it can be VERY hard to put locations on German guns. One might say the "typical" SW German gun (though there is no such thing) might have a straight wrist with raised carving...not much help, eh? One thing that does make a gun somewhat more identifiable is the presence of the "Fraenkischer Stern". When this is seen on a gun, the auction catalogs immediately identify it as a "south german" gun. It is found primarily on guns from the Main river area, running from Franken all the way to the Pfalz. I have photos of only one rifle known to have been made in the Pfalz. It is straight wristed with relatively little relief carving. The star is on the cheekpiece. It also has a wood box with sections on the front and rear of the box lid made out of very burly wood, separated by white lines, likely made of bone. Matching decoration is found on the cheekpiece edge. A very attractive rifle.
 
I agree as to Jim's kits. They are quite simply the very best.As to the Edward Marshall rifle, George Shumway, "Rifles of Colonial America" Vol.I no. 41, I believe the consensus is that it is a restocked Jaeger and that the barrel has been reversed on the gun. It is doubtful that the rifle dates any earlier than the 1770's or 1760's.
Tom Patton :m2c:
 
yes, its been a long time since I've delved into that material myself.
i found this a useful summary:
The poor Palatines

and here is a timeline of the events that set the ball rolling so to speak:
Timeline of the Bohemian and Palatine War 1618-23
bohemian1.jpg
 
Simply saying "the Marshall gun is a restocked Jaeger" is not sufficient. While the barrel is indeed re-used, and the lock COULD be, the hardware is another matter. The buttplate is sheet brass (and I am told, has lead added inside the heel) and could have been easily made anywhere. The triggerguard is almost exactly the same as several other triggerguards from the Northampton county area. The finials are different, but the overall sizes and shapes are the same. (see the triggerguards on the "Orre" gun, RCA#87, along with the triggerguard on the famed "#52") One could conclude that these triggerguards might all have been made from the same pattern.

Saying "restock" does not do justice to the stocking itself, either, which is awesome. (though even I consider this gun a bit "bulky"...) NO ONE does a good kit or precarve of this gun EXCEPT the Chamber's one, which is pretty good. This stock form COULD be used on any number of German-type guns, BUT unfortunately, they do not offer any options for hardware inletting.
 
Fat Dutchman. I have ended up with a TOW Jaeger kit as part of a trade. What could you recommend in the way of modifications to make it more correct. I have seen where you have posted that they are not correct as they come in the kit. I have very limited knowledge of Yeagers, but will have to build and sell this one to come out on this trade. Thanks for any input you can give me.
 
Well, the TOW one is not all THAT horrible...I would have made the comb straighter anyway. They've ALWAYS got too much drop! (this is THE NUMBER ONE complaint I have about precarved "jaegers"). Round cheekpieces can be hard to pull off.

Are the buttplate and triggerguard already inlet? If they're not, I think I would go with something Prussian looking...get a plain, square tang buttplate and large "D" triggerguard from Reeves Goehring...REAL yellow brass. Consider a single-action double set trigger. Like Track's Davis TR-DST-1. I might also go with plain, sheet brass pipes filed into just a barrel shape....those ringed ones are HARD to inlet...
 
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