Effectiveness of C&B Revolvers

[Rifleman1776]

Agree, by current standards, the calibers were small and the guns underpowered. I read one account that said folks greatly feared getting shot by one of those "little" guns because a slow and agonizing death followed. Medical care was nearly non-existant. A wound that today would be fixed meant ,back then,a slow agonizing death. Lincoln was shot in the head at point blank range but still took days to die.

 

[Poor Private]

Agree, by current standards, the calibers were small and the guns underpowered. I read one account that said folks greatly feared getting shot by one of those "little" guns because a slow and agonizing death followed. Medical care was nearly non-existant. A wound that today would be fixed meant ,back then,a slow agonizing death. Lincoln was shot in the head at point blank range but still took days to die.

Lincoln didn't take days to die. He died the next morning-- Look it up in your Funk and Wagnals

 

[Poor Private]

Well the way I look at it, is, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be shot by any BP revolver! If someone was pointying one at me and asked for my cash- I sure would give it to em.

 

[Coot]

Lincoln died early the morning after he was shot, not days later - but your point that in the time before antibiotics, even a small wound could easily be fatal due to infection is quite true. Funny how the threat of being shot (even with what we might call a "pop-gun") was perhaps scarier then than now.

 

[PRM]

130 years ago, buildings and houses were drafty and far more subject subject to dampness from the elements. No vapor barriers and rarely any form of insulation.

People lived in the elements many more hours of the day.

I agree with that - but I still don't see how powder inside a cylinder is affected more by moisture than powder in a flask or can. Why would the powder in either of these containers be any "fresher" than the powder loaded in the cylinder.

First not eveyone was a dunce and let their guns rust.

To begin, I have not called you or anyone else on the forum a dunce who lets their guns rust. I've been shooting and collecting C&B revolvers for close to 40 years and most original specimens I have seen with documented Civil War or frontier use are not in pristine condition. In fact, they show the wear of both environment and the corrosive effects of the black powder. Armies on the move did not stop to clean their arms on a daily basis, nor did many individuals living out in austere conditions.

Bill Hickok's habit is documented but I can't cite it right now.

I too, have read this in more than one article - but I have yet to see a source document that backs it up. Just because enough writers repeat it, may make it a part of the legend, but still does not document that it happened. I would be very interested in seeing your source.

 

[Cleburne]

IMHO if carefully loaded and cared for a cap and ball revolver is just as reliable as any modern handgun. Their only draw back is once you've squeezed that trigger the sixth time you'd better hope your opponent is down for good.

Don

+1 In all my years of shooting cap & ball revolvers, the ONLY time I had one fail to fire was when, in my haste to load for a cowboy match, I failed to cap the nipples on my Remington .44. Load properly and carefully and you shouldn't have a problem as long as you're working with a quality made pistol. :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Percussion revolvers are indeed very effective compared to modern cartridge pistols & revolvers. The best research I've ever seen is an article that appeared in the February 1998 issue of "Handguns" magazine. Basically, it compared both types using fairly exhaustive research compared to the modern Fuller index, a much more accurate method of looking at 'stopping power' of handguns. Without going into laborious details they used and going into the stretch cavity and crush cavity, the research also compared old and current police reports of stopping power or various handguns. The research firstly proved the round ball out-performed the conical ball except in penetration. The final comparison ran like this.

.31 Pocket revolver/.22 long rifle...30% stop.
.36 Navy/.380 88GR. JHP...58% One-shot stop
.44 Army/.44 Special LEAD HP....74% stop.
.44 Walker/.41 Mag. 175GR JHP...88% one-shot stop

It seems a bit startling at first but their results showed the hydrostatic shock ability of the soft lead round ball fired by the cap & bll revolvers. Surprising was the .36 coming in at basically .380 Auto level, though this is the high-speed jacketed hollow point round. Goes to prove, Wild Bill was accurate as well as fast. See if you can find this back issue, it's really revealing.

 

[TFoley]

It's all moot really - I never heard that we were made of weaker stuff back in the old days. On the contrary, we seem to have all been - on the whole - a LOT stronger and muscular. And yet, these funny old guns kept right on killing us 100% dead as a doornail. It's rather odd [to some, it seems] that you can be killed just as dead by a BP revolver-fired 44cal RB to the head as with a .338LM, but there ya go.

I'd also opine that the many game animals we all kill every year with our old guns are equally as dead as they ever used to be.

Many of us have been in the target butts when an old rifle, or a copy thereof, sends a thumb-sized Minié ball over our heads to thump into the backstop sand or dirt. Would you stand up in front, just because it's 'old-fashioned'? would you, he77. I remain totally impressed, nay, in positive awe, of our antecedents who advanced across open fields in the face of massed volleys of this stuff.

A modern .58cal bullet at 1000fps is the same as an old .58cal bullet 1000fps - only the means of getting it to the target may have been up-dated.
But both produce the same end result.

tac vcrai.com

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Dampness in any areas was a severe problem for powder and guns. Folks learned to take precautions, like dripping candle wax around the capped nipple to seal it from moisture. Moisture finds it way just about everywhere. Which may be an additional reason for greasing on top the ball to seal the chamber.

 

[PRM]

I have never experienced issues related to moisture. Been shooting black powder arms since the 70s. At times my guns have been loaded for extended periods and kept in a variety of conditions. I've just never found loaded powder to go bad. In fact - the loaded cylinder has a tighter seal than the cut off on my flask(s)provide. My most extreme - involved a can of powder that was stored in an outside building in a footlocker. I had put it away in the early 80s, forgot about it, and while cleaning out the shed came back across it. Had to have been there for close to 25 years. No climate control - extremes in humidity and temperatures. Shot just fine.

In a time when money was short and people made do with what they had - I doubt seriously if they wasted powder, lead, and caps for any reason.

 

[TFoley]

Dampness in any areas was a severe problem for powder and guns. Folks learned to take precautions, like dripping candle wax around the capped nipple to seal it from moisture. Moisture finds it way just about everywhere. Which may be an additional reason for greasing on top the ball to seal the chamber.

Hmmmm. For the umteenth time I've just read the instructions inside the case of my old Colt, and yet again failed to find any note about greasing over the end of the chambers.

Do you reckon that it's just something that the old-timers did by learning that they had to do it? In spite of the fact that swaging the ball into the chamber provided the tightest seal you could get anyhow?

When did it start to be become an must-do?

tac vcrai.com

 

[Supercracker]

FWIW. I keep my Navy 44 in my truck console loaded with half ball and half #8 shot for snakes and such. I just had to use it to take care of a yote that got stuck in the fence last night trying to get to my quail pen.

It fired fine and I loaded it so long ago that I can't remember when it was.

 

My take on the whole affair, is that there is a great number of bodies that have fallen when a cap and ball pistol/revolver has spoke its piece. Whether those bodies be Native Americans, soldiers, settlers, bandits, rustlers, gamblers, and the list goes on, they are still dead and buried. Are cap and ball pistols/revolvers perfect? No, but they can still get the job done.

Take drills for instance. First, man used a wooden shaft tipped with stone or bone, and worked it between his palms to make a hole. Then, some got the idea to use a bow to work the shaft. Others thought to use a weighted whorl to get the job done, then water wheels, steam, electricity, and now rechargeable batteries. Thing is, all of these devices still drill a hole. But, if any of these devices are left to neglect, or the user is unfamiliar with its use, then of course they will fail.

What makes a cap and ball pistol/revolver reliable is attention to detail. The details in its function, its loading, its care and its use. Hickok understood that and saw to it. What got him in the end, was not a misfire, just pre-occupation with his cards.

Just my two pence.
CP

 

[Zonie]

You are right tac.
The Colt company never mentioned using anything over the top of the ball when loading their pistol.

I suspect the oldtimers loaded their cap & ball pistols with nothing over the balls but it wouldn't surprise me to find that some of them put some grease or wax over the balls not necessarily to lube them or to prevent chain fires but as a form of water proofing the loads.

 

[cynthialee]

all it took was one chain fire to convince me that I should never forget the greese. Even though I am pretty sure it was loose caps that caused the chain fire I am not 100% sure as I also didn't have that cylender greased properly.

 

You are right tac.
The Colt company never mentioned using anything over the top of the ball when loading their pistol.

I suspect the oldtimers loaded their cap & ball pistols with nothing over the balls but it wouldn't surprise me to find that some of them put some grease or wax over the balls not necessarily to lube them or to prevent chain fires but as a form of water proofing the loads.

I have seen third hand accounts, though I haven't nail down a specific source, of Robert E. Lee's 1851 Colt Navy revolver being fired seven years after his death, with the cylinders being sealed with red candle wax or a black substance.

Having lived a good part of my life in Southern states, I discount the candle wax, unless it was dyed beeswax. Could it have been sealing wax? A man, of his position, would definitely have it on hand. The black substance would lead me to think it was tallow. Tallow can turn black with mold over time.

I am awaiting a reply, to a query I have made to Washington and Lee University. They hold the papers for the Lee family, and perhaps they can give me a specific reference to this mystery.

CP

 

[BGRooster1]

Seems we all hear about folks keeping the rifle or shotgun and powder above or next to the fireplace or by the stove . This would help to keep the powder dry .
The house I used to live in was an old poorly insulated ,insulated with saw dust over 100 years ago, and drafty place . In the winter, I always kept a pot of water on the wood stove to put some humidity into the air . Summer of course was not the same .

 

[crockett]

CP- that's not at Wash & Lee- it is at the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond. If you haven't been therer- it is a quick off and on from I-95- check it out next time you are driving by. Lots of good stuff. :wink:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Colt may have never mentioned sealing the chambers. I have left my cylinder loaded for a period of years, but stored in a cool dry closet. Whether it would have fared as well in an open holster out during a drizzly day herding cattle is another story.

I also note that the Armies tended to use flapped holsters.

Some folks think that once the lead is swaged into the chamber it swells back up again to stick fast in place. I don't think that is the case.

 

[cynthialee]

Just seal the chambers with some grease is my automatic go to at all times when using a C&B reveolver. I do not know if it is protecting from moisture or not but every time I pick up my pistol and it has been loaded for an extended time, I always get ignition and a boom. Is it the grease or just a well sealed lead ball I do not know. But out of habit I will keep them sealed.
If I am shooting a number of cylenders down range I switch to 10w30 applied with an eye droper over each chamber. Just a drop on the top of each bullet does the trick.