Effectiveness on Deer?

[BrownBear]

I just picked up a Lyman GPR 54 caliber percussion rifle- too late for hunting deer this season, but the price was certainly right.

I don't have any frame of reference for performance of RB's on deer, so I'll toss it out to folks with experience:

I've been shooting 100 grains of FFg to get acquainted with the rifle. Accuracy seems fine, but I would like to know a bit more about how this load would perform on deer. Are there other loads you prefer? What do you think about effective maximum range, assuming my marksmanship could match RB terminal performance?

Thanks for feedback and accounts.

 

[musketman]

The round ball will take a deer fine, anything that will put a half-inch plus hole in something will be effective...

The .535 round ball in a 32" barrel will be effective on deer even at 70 grains of FFg, this will give roughly 1400 fps and 410 ft/lbs. energy thereabouts at 100 yards...

There is no reasin you couldn't take a deer out to 100 to 175 yards with a round ball using the 100 grain load, roughly 1640 fps should give you a better down range performance...

I'm not sure what the max-load is recomended for your Lyman GPR, since you stated 100 grains, I'll stop there.

My Lyman Muzzleloading handbook goes higher for the .54 caliber, but that was using their test barrels.

 

[Darkhorse]

In the GP, try 80 grains of 3FG. It will give higher velocities and burn cleaner than 2F. It will probably handle a larger charge but that is the max listed by Lyman, plus it is all you need for deer and a lot other, larger critters.
We had quite a discussion about RB's versus other stuff awhile back, so I won't go into all that again.
But, the patched Round Ball is ALL I ever shoot for targets. It doesn't matter whether that target is paper or wears hair. The bottom line, in reality is, the PRB is a devastating projectile.

 

[BrownBear]

Lyman lists a max of 120 grains of FF or 100 grains of FFF. I've been playing with the RB because of a couple I have seen that were recovered from elk. Impressive, indeed. Interesting feedback on using FFF. I've been using it in my 36, but never really considered it for the 54. Lots to learn.

May as well go ahead and give the background on those two RB's recovered from elk. They were from two seperate hunts and belong to my brother-in-law, who was hunting with companions using 50 cals and an assortment of conicals. I don't have all the details so it's risky for me to say too much, but on the first hunt his three companions each required second shots to finish their animals. His companions on the second hunt were repeats from the first one, still using conicals but different brands and models than the year before. One got a one-shot kill, but the other still required a finishing shot. Meanwhile my brother-in-law got one-shot kills on both hunts using the 54 RB.

All that proves is that I don't know diddly about where the elk were hit, how far off they were, or much else for that matter. The fact that they were trying new conicals on the second hunt tells me a little. Holding those two expanded 54 RBs in my hand told me everything else I need to know! That's why there's a 54 on my rack now and I'm splattering round balls against the backstop.

 

[roundball]

For me the .54cal round ball is devastating on deer...I use 90grns Goex FFFg for my hunting loads with Hornady .530's...every deer I've taken with a .54cal have been one shot kills, the longest being 70yds.

I think of my .45, .50, and .54calibers as being like the .243, .30-30, and .30-06 of the muzzleloader world...the .54 is so powerful and has so much shock energy that I use high shoulder shots with it on deer (like a .30-06) and it drops them in their tracks...same with the .50cal out to about 50-60yds, but I wait for easy, clear broadside heart shots with the .45cal

 

[TwoShadows]

Interesting thread Brown Bear. I too used .54 the last couple of years...had been using a .60.

I shoot the 3f also. .530 swaged ball and thick ticking. 70 grains has been sufficient for me, but I hunt where the max range is like 50 yards. Some rifles are picky about what they digest well, and during the fine tuning of this particular Jaeger I found it liked the 3f, so I stuck with it. I shoot everything from .40 to .62 right now...(have owned the gamut from .29 to .75)and really like the performance of the .54.

Congrats on the new GPR !

 

[BrownBear]

I think I can make out the trail left by experienced hands here, and I'm walking within a step or two of it. I've shot deer and elk with 38-55, 38-56, 45-70, 450 Alaskan and 50-140 using cast bullets, and it sounds like some of what I learned will apply with a 54 RB.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[LRB]

Looking forward to meeting you at Alafia Twoshadows. I shoot a .54 with 90gr of ffg, .530 ball and ticking. Have killed maybe a dozen deer with this load and all but I think two had the ball stop under the skin on other side. When possible I aim just behind the shoulder to conserve meat and most run about 30 or 40 yrds then hit the ground dead. I am going to have Bob Hoyt install a barrel liner in it due to premature wear in the Colrain barrel and then I am going to try fffg to see if I can come up with a good load as I use fffg for my prime and would be able to prime straight from my horn and not have to carry a priming horn.

 

[roundball]

I use Goex FFFg in everything (except .12ga)
.45, .50, .54, .56, and .62...it's fast, clean, accurate, reasonably priced, etc

 

[Allan]

My vote also for the 3F.
I tried different loads in my 50cal. smokepole and 3F for the prime and main charge work best. Great ignition, cleanest burn, consistant, and only one horn to carry.
Goex 3F is my choice also.

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Allan:
and only one horn to carry.This was a common practice to use the same powder in both main charge and to prime...

Some people still do this, either for simplicity
or just to be period correct...

 

[Darkhorse]

Brown Bear,
Check you Lyman manual again. My manual for the .54 GPR shows max loads of 80 grs. 3FG and 100 grs. of 2FG. It is listed in both the manual and the yellow flyer that came with the gun.
My TC shows a max load of 120 grs. 2FG.

 

[BrownBear]

That's interesting! The manual that came with mine lists a max of 120 grains of FFg and 100 grains of FFFg, both with .535 RB and .015 patch. My Lyman Black Powder Handbook (Copyright 1975) goes all the way up to 160 grains of FFFg with a PRB in a universal receiver! I haven't gone above 60 grains of FFFg with my GPR, mostly because I have been dinking around with FFFg looking for light loads for snowshoe hares.

I did try 110gn of FFg out of curiosity, which reminded me very much of shooting a 12 gauge slug load. Based upon performance I've had with slugs on our small Sitka blacktail deer, you don't need anything that potent unless you are looking to stretch the range out to 100 yards or beyond. Since my eyes have about a 50 yard range with the standard sights on the GPR, I'll likely settle on something a lot less "intersting" as my standard deer load.

 

[hardykev]

My manual shows the same data. It is the same data that in in the manual I downloaded from Lyman's website.

Rifles:

.50
.495" RB 110grs 2Fg or 90 grs 3Fg
240 gr sabot 100 grs 2Fg or 90 grs 3Fg
335 gr sabot 100 grs 2Fg or 80 grs 3Fg
420 gr maxi 100 grs 2Fg or 80 grs 3Fg

.54
.535" RB 120 grs 2Fg or 100 grs 3Fg
335 gr sabot 110 grs 2Fg or 90 grs 3Fg
450 gr maxi 110 grs 2Fg or 90 grs 3Fg

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by BrownBear:
My Lyman Black Powder Handbook (Copyright 1975) goes all the way up to 160 grains of FFFg with a PRB in a universal receiver!As does mine...

Maybe Lyman backed off on their "generous max load" of powder because people were using 160 grains in barrels that were not designed for more than 120 grains max...

I can see a law suit waiting to happen...

 

[BrownBear]

Ain't it the truth, Musketman.

Coming from a long history of reloading and load development for modern (including wildcat) and antique cartridge arms, I'm pretty well schooled in caution, common sense, and pressure signs. I don't know what to look for with muzzleloaders, and it's a little frustrating to be stumbling around more or less blind- especially when there is so much variation among "authorities." I've heard everything from "don't worry about too much, because any unburned powder is just going to be pushed out the muzzle" all the way to "if you exceed these maximums, the wrath of God shall befall you."

I'm curious if anyone out there knows how to read between all these fuzzy lines.

 

[Crossfox]

While I don't own a GPR, I do have a .54 J. Browning rifle. With a 90 grain load of FFg and a patched roundball, it has taken four moose over the last 10 years. The longest shot was about 80 yards.

So, for deer, the 70 to 90 grain charge would be very effective. When I lived in SE Alaska I hunted blacktails with a .45 using 70 grains of FFFg and PRB. This loading took many deer out to 100 yards over the 27 years that I hunted with that rifle......and it was a flintlock, too.

 

[Darkhorse]

I just checked the Lyman website and it does list new max. loads. There are also a couple of other new things in the manual that wasn't there years ago.
It is nice to know they have increased the max load if I ever feel a need for it. I know for a fact that 80 grains of 3FG in that rifle will shoot clean through a whitetail's ribcage and raps back as sharp as I care to feel.

 

[BrownBear]

Just got back from a fairly extensive shooting session. In spite of weather (16 degrees and windy), we stuck it out. Recognizing that you can kill deer with a 22 if you do it right, I have nonetheless started forming a few impressions about what I'm likely to settle on for a deer load in my GPR 54. About all I have to go on is perceived recoil and comparisons with ballistics of cartridge guns (especially handguns and old BP cartridges) with similar balistics. Stir all that up into an opinionated stew, and here's what I'm starting to guess:

I'm a little suspicious of RB loads lighter than about 60 gn FFF for deer, but within range limits anything from 60 up "feels" like it should have plenty of whop for deer, at least our Sitka blacktails. I spent some time with Darkhorse's 80 grain load, and it "feels" about right for me and the ranges I hunt.

I will say that my particular GPR really likes 40 grains of FFF, and I might not bother to look any lower for my standard snowshoe hare load. With that big ball, a bad shot is going to ruin a lot of meat no matter how slow the ball is rolling!

 

[Chuck Deaton]

If you want to see what your loads are doing cook up some Jello, strawberry with pecans is best IMHO, and let it jell in a gallon milk jug. Then set some out, on stumps, at various ranges and fire away.

Any load that will penetrate both sides of the plastic jug and knock the jug off the stump is a keeper.