wilded
40 Cal.
I just obtained several pounds of Elephant in 2F and 3F powders. Do I need to adjust my loads for the change in brand from Goex? Anyone have any experience with this powder? Thanks, ET :idunno:
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Elephant Powder ???
- Thread starter wilded
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I still have a couple pounds of Elephant but haven't bought any for 10-12 years. I used it for BPCR cartridges and never used it for ML loads, so can't really address whether you need to increase or decrease load vs, say, Goex. Several friends used Elephant in their MLs and switched back to Goex because they said it was really dirty in their MLs. Maybe so, maybe not, I can't say for sure :idunno:.
matt denison
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I tried some once. I used it same-for-same as I did Goex. I was dissapointed that it wouldn't catch sparks in the pan readily. It is speculated that the graphite coating it too thick and reduces it's aballity to catch a spark. Whatever, I ended up using it in my cannon 'cause no powder can argue with a fuse.
mhb
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FWIW...
I've noted several things about Elephant (which is no longer available, I believe):
1. It is not as strong as GOEX, on average - a 35gr.(measured)charge of GOEX 2F in my 20 bore flintlock pistol gives an average MV of 600 fps, while a similar volume of Elephant 2F averages only 435 fps.
2. It is denser than GOEX - the 35 gr. measure when filled with GOEX delivers a charge which actually weighs right at 35 gr.; the same measured volume of Elephant weighs 38 gr.
3. GOEX is somewhat cleaner than Elephant (admittedly this is personal observation and not measured by any scientific means).
For these reasons, I will use GOEX in preference, though I have a fair quantity of Elephant remaining - I'll keep it in case I run out of GOEX.
mhb - Mike
I've noted several things about Elephant (which is no longer available, I believe):
1. It is not as strong as GOEX, on average - a 35gr.(measured)charge of GOEX 2F in my 20 bore flintlock pistol gives an average MV of 600 fps, while a similar volume of Elephant 2F averages only 435 fps.
2. It is denser than GOEX - the 35 gr. measure when filled with GOEX delivers a charge which actually weighs right at 35 gr.; the same measured volume of Elephant weighs 38 gr.
3. GOEX is somewhat cleaner than Elephant (admittedly this is personal observation and not measured by any scientific means).
For these reasons, I will use GOEX in preference, though I have a fair quantity of Elephant remaining - I'll keep it in case I run out of GOEX.
mhb - Mike
wilded
40 Cal.
That is the exact reason I bought it. Just in case I can't get Goex and that I got a good price. It had been stored in a gunsafe so it looks fine. ET :thumbsup:
hanshi
Cannon
I've burned a lot of Elephant in the past when that was all I could get. Unlike many who've used it I had no major complaints and used it to kill deer, tin cans and paper targets. I never chronographed it so can't speak to it's power.
mhb
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Like you, I've used a good deal of Elephant when GOEX wasn't available - and, of course, stocked-up because the supply of black has been uncertain more than once (I still have some Curtis&Harvey and some less common BPs from those bad old days).
And I never had any reason to complain about its performance, though I just shot it and never bothered to chronograph it until recently, when it became obvious that it is NOT the same as GOEX.
Which is not to say that it is no good, or useless - just that GOEX seems to be the better, more efficient powder. I'll eventually shoot it up or trade it off: I sure won't pour it on the cactus and ocotillo.
What I really wish is that there were more choices in modern BP, or that I could find a few kegs of (just to name a few) the old C&H, Pigou, Laflin&Rand, Hazard's or (too good to hope for) Col. Rains' Confederate Powder Works product, which even the damyankees conceded was a superior powder.
I acknowledge the Swiss as excellent powder, but still wish we had some other choices as good, or, better still, American-made and, one hopes, less expensive.
mhb - Mike
And I never had any reason to complain about its performance, though I just shot it and never bothered to chronograph it until recently, when it became obvious that it is NOT the same as GOEX.
Which is not to say that it is no good, or useless - just that GOEX seems to be the better, more efficient powder. I'll eventually shoot it up or trade it off: I sure won't pour it on the cactus and ocotillo.
What I really wish is that there were more choices in modern BP, or that I could find a few kegs of (just to name a few) the old C&H, Pigou, Laflin&Rand, Hazard's or (too good to hope for) Col. Rains' Confederate Powder Works product, which even the damyankees conceded was a superior powder.
I acknowledge the Swiss as excellent powder, but still wish we had some other choices as good, or, better still, American-made and, one hopes, less expensive.
mhb - Mike
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I am one of the few who liked elephant an I really like the price of it. If I could get it I would still be shooting it. I never had any ignition or severe fouling problems. I never shot any over a chronograph but I've not shot any goex over one either. If I were you Id shoot the heck out of it. :thumbsup:
I have Elephant brand powder and, right now, I believe I'm 1/2 way into a "bad" can. It seems to lower p.o.i. on shots. It was all I could find originally. The dealer now has Scheutzen, which I bought a couple cans.
Like others, I've taken everything from squirrels to black bear with no problem. Maybe not the best, but it works.
Like others, I've taken everything from squirrels to black bear with no problem. Maybe not the best, but it works.
ohio ramrod
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I won several cans years ago. I tried one can and it was DIRTY and poor performing. I gave the rest away! :idunno: :idunno:
From what I've gathered over the years there may have been some quality control issues...some good batches of Elephant made...but without question there have been a lot of sorry batches made.
My experience with several cans of 3F found it to be garbage...poor/slow ignition, very dirty fouling, literally had what looked like tiny pieces of sticks, etc. I then tried it in a capock to try and salvage my investment...but still got slow fires, hang fires, and very dirty fouling.
I finally poured each of the 4.5 cans of Elephant 3F out on bare ground at the range in separate 10 foot lines, and burned it off.
Have gone through several cases of Goex since then and its been perfectly outstanding and consistent for a dozen years now.
Considering the cost of gasoline for round trip range trips, the cost of patches, balls, and priming powder...to say nothing of the time wasted...I personally would not make a range trip with Elephant powder if it was given to me for free.
Others mileage may vary...
My experience with several cans of 3F found it to be garbage...poor/slow ignition, very dirty fouling, literally had what looked like tiny pieces of sticks, etc. I then tried it in a capock to try and salvage my investment...but still got slow fires, hang fires, and very dirty fouling.
I finally poured each of the 4.5 cans of Elephant 3F out on bare ground at the range in separate 10 foot lines, and burned it off.
Have gone through several cases of Goex since then and its been perfectly outstanding and consistent for a dozen years now.
Considering the cost of gasoline for round trip range trips, the cost of patches, balls, and priming powder...to say nothing of the time wasted...I personally would not make a range trip with Elephant powder if it was given to me for free.
Others mileage may vary...
Mike Brooks
Cannon
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I couldn't get a second shot out of a ML with it, too dirty. I use it for BP cartridge shot guns which it works great for. :thumbsup:
I have shot it for years. Yes it is a little dirty, but I swabbed between shots anyway. So that is not a problem for me.
Have killed several deer with it.
Any of you who are considering throwing it away. Throw it my way and I will recycle it for you.
Have killed several deer with it.
Any of you who are considering throwing it away. Throw it my way and I will recycle it for you.
Elephant Powder..., :barf:
The problem I had was horrendous fouling and oddly slow ignition; the problem as a whole was apparently quality control, as mine came from one lot, and other folks with Elephant from other lots had different results. It was so bad, that I stopped using it (3Fg) in blanks!
Diamondback powder is currently made in the plant that once produced Elephant. I am told the quality control issues were solved, and I have several pounds of 3Fg of that to try. I am also told, that Elephant had such a bad rep, they changed the name of the powder to avoid a stigma. That's unconfirmed however.
My unit bought Diamondback for use in blanks, but I will be testing it for live rounds, and I now own a chronograph, so will be able to have a better grasp on the results. Still the stuff I have is from a single lot, and I really need a wider range of lots to give a proper evaluation.
LD
The problem I had was horrendous fouling and oddly slow ignition; the problem as a whole was apparently quality control, as mine came from one lot, and other folks with Elephant from other lots had different results. It was so bad, that I stopped using it (3Fg) in blanks!
Diamondback powder is currently made in the plant that once produced Elephant. I am told the quality control issues were solved, and I have several pounds of 3Fg of that to try. I am also told, that Elephant had such a bad rep, they changed the name of the powder to avoid a stigma. That's unconfirmed however.
My unit bought Diamondback for use in blanks, but I will be testing it for live rounds, and I now own a chronograph, so will be able to have a better grasp on the results. Still the stuff I have is from a single lot, and I really need a wider range of lots to give a proper evaluation.
LD
Elephant powder makes excellent garden fertilizer. That is where several pounds of it I had ended up after trying it for shooting.
Somehow, though, I didn't dump all of it and still have about two pounds. With the increase in price of all bp I am using it to dial in my fowler. When all is where I want it, I'll fine tune with powders I have more confidence in. e.g. Goex, Schutzen, Swiss.....
Somehow, though, I didn't dump all of it and still have about two pounds. With the increase in price of all bp I am using it to dial in my fowler. When all is where I want it, I'll fine tune with powders I have more confidence in. e.g. Goex, Schutzen, Swiss.....
hanshi
Cannon
:thumbsup:
About 8-10 years ago a bunch of us split a case (25) of Elephant, all 3F as I remember. Mostly flint shooters. We generally agreed it (1) had a lower POI and needed a slightly higher charge (2) was dirtier, although not terrible to clean, and (3) was worth the money, but nowhere as satisfactory as GOEX. If it had been all we had, we'd still be shooting it. I gave away the last can to a reenactor. Good smoke, Ron in FL
