Eli Whitney Musket model1812 ?

[TonyF]

I stopped in a Virginia a pawn shop.
Saw this musket and would like input on originality and ballpark value.
I found from research it started its life as a Flintlock and was converted to Percussion at some point.
They just got it in and didn’t have a price on it yet.
I attached a few pictures.
Let me know your thoughts.
Tony

 

[OLUT]

I stopped in a Virginia a pawn shop.
Saw this musket and would like input on originality and ballpark value.
I found from research it started its life as a Flintlock and was converted to Percussion at some point.
They just got it in and didn’t have a price on it yet.
I attached a few pictures.
Let me know your thoughts.
Tony View attachment 343238

A fairly clean version of the Model 1816 musket. It survived Civil War usage without any serious damage beyond the barrel exterior being rather rough. It's a Whitney manufactured "US contract of 1822" (second contract) that was converted from flintlock to percussion using the "cone" or Belgian alteration". Most of these post-1830 Whitney locks have the later "N.HAVEN" marking as compared to the earlier "NEW HAVEN" on this gun. Some of the stampings near the breech are obliterated, but part of the "US" marking near the tip of the hammer is visible. Likewise the stock cartouche is there but worn beyond legibility. I hesitate to give a price estimate but in this shape, I've seen them sell from $700 up to a $1000

 

[TonyF]

A fairly clean version of the Model 1816 musket. It survived Civil War usage without any serious damage beyond the barrel exterior being rather rough. It's a Whitney manufactured "US contract of 1822" (second contract) that was converted from flintlock to percussion using the "cone" or Belgian alteration". Most of these post-1830 Whitney locks have the later "N.HAVEN" marking as compared to the earlier "NEW HAVEN" on this gun. Some of the stampings near the breech are obliterated, but part of the "US" marking near the tip of the hammer is visible. Likewise the stock cartouche is there but worn beyond legibility. I hesitate to give a price estimate but in this shape, I've seen them sell from $700 up to a $1000

OLUT
Thank you for the info.
Would this be considered a wall hanger or could it be brought back to life?
What precautions and inspections would be required to be able to shoot
this firearm ?
Would musket caps,and 3fff powder be sufficient , would it take a .69 caliber ball?
Thanks
Tony

 

[OLUT]

OLUT
Thank you for the info.
Would this be considered a wall hanger or could it be brought back to life?
What precautions and inspections would be required to be able to shoot
this firearm ?
Would musket caps,and 3fff powder be sufficient , would it take a .69 caliber ball?
Thanks
Tony

Other more qualified shooters than me can give you much better info, but I used .680 soft lead balls about 70 grains of ffg black powder, and winged musket caps. Bore size can vary but in my 1816 musket the .68 ball fit snugly and I merely put a wad of paper over it to keep things in place. But fffg black powder will work as well (typically with a bit less powder required). Keep the powder charge moderate in these old guns if you shoot them. Based on the replacement nipple on the gun, I bet that it was shot by the previous owner. If you are not able to inspect the gun, please find a QUALIFIED gunsmith to check it out

 

[springfield art]

I stopped in a Virginia a pawn shop.
Saw this musket and would like input on originality and ballpark value.
I found from research it started its life as a Flintlock and was converted to Percussion at some point.
They just got it in and didn’t have a price on it yet.
I attached a few pictures.
Let me know your thoughts.
Tony View attachment 343238

Beautiful lock-plate! Originally flint converted in history to percussion. Let us know if you get it!

 

[springfield art]

Other more qualified shooters than me can give you much better info, but I used .680 soft lead balls about 70 grains of ffg black powder, and winged musket caps. Bore size can vary but in my 1816 musket the .68 ball fit snugly and I merely put a wad of paper over it to keep things in place. But fffg black powder will work as well (typically with a bit less powder required). Keep the powder charge moderate in these old guns if you shoot them. Based on the replacement nipple on the gun, I bet that it was shot by the previous owner. If you are not able to inspect the gun, please find a QUALIFIED gunsmith to check it out

That's a 'replacement' nipple? Looks aged in the photo. Moderation is important on the oldsters!

 

[TonyF]

I really appreciate the helpful feedback
I left my number with the pawnshop guy so I’m going to wait a few days and see if he gets back.
If not I’ll stop in next week and make an offer.
Hopefully it will still be there!

 

[TonyF]

I really appreciate the helpful feedback
I left my number with the pawnshop guy so I’m going to wait a few days and see if he gets back.
If not I’ll stop in next week and make an offer.
Hopefully it will still be there!

More pics,

 

[1General_Grant]

More pics,

How many barrel bands does it have?

 

[TonyF]

How many barrel bands does it have?

I want to say two barrel bands.
Unfortunately I didn’t take a full length picture.

 

[1General_Grant]

I want to say two barrel bands.
Unfortunately I didn’t take a full length picture.

The front barrel band is missing,

the middle barrel band is being used as a front barrel band.

The 2nd picture shows what the front barrel band should look like.

 

[TonyF]

The front barrel band is missing,View attachment 343332 the middle barrel band is being used as a front barrel band.

The 2nd picture shows what the front barrel band should look like.

 

[TonyF]

Interesting,
Could they be reversed?
Here’s another picture of the other barrel band .
I’ll have to take a full length picture.

 

[1General_Grant]

Interesting,
Could they be reversed?
Here’s another picture of the other barrel band .
I’ll have to take a full length picture.

That's the 3rd barrel band, it's in the correct place. If there really was only 2 on that musket it's missing one, there is supposed to be 3.

 

[TonyF]

Would this be what it’s missing?

 

[hawkeye2]

What's the barrel length? It looks like it has been cut down. It should be 42" with 3 bands.

 

[2 shots]

im bettin the bayonet lug is missing. it was cut back. better be a real good deal.

 

[1General_Grant]

Would this be what it’s missing?

Yes, that's it.

 

[Conquerordie]

If it's cutback, then you should offer even less. Doesn't take away from the history it might have seen, but it does effect the price.

 

[TonyF]

What's the barrel length? It looks like it has been cut down. It should be 42" with 3 bands.

I'm going to go back today and measure the barrel and overall length.

im bettin the bayonet lug is missing. it was cut back. better be a real good deal.

Hopefully not, will get more info today

Yes, that's it.

Found this source for parts.
http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/us_arms/(543).htm