Kentuckywindage said:
hanshi said:
I'll talk "ft lbs" with ya'. Just remember these figures mean absolutely ZERO when considering MLs.
Loaded up, a .50 can match a 30/30 in M.E. with either ball or conical. We're talking in (the 1700ft lbs) range. A well charged .40 easily equals a .41mag revolver with factory loads (the 800s). .36? Well, it can be loaded to factory level energies of a .357mag (the 600s). A .45 can easily leave a .44mag revolver in the dust (1200s). The .32 can beat .22mag loads from a rifle.
We could go on but there you have it; no need to continue. These figures are meaningless with muzzy guns. Just shoot and have fun!
A 3030 can kill elk at 200 yards. Can that 177gr round ball?
If its placed right, yes.
All that is required is sufficient penetration and shot placement.
But shot placement is far more difficult due to trajectory.
"Moderns" and this includes many ML shooters of today, get all hung up on energy. But the RBs killing power is based on bore size. People figured this out long before people started worrying about energy.
Blackpowder lacks the ability to produce the velocity that smokeless willand thus are, generally, range limited. Even a 45-70 with a heavy bullet at just over the speed of sound will shoot through large game at ranges far past were its easy to hit one. Run a 45 caliber 550 grain bullet with a BC of .330 through a ballistics program at 1250 or even 1350 (about what a 45-100 will generate) and look at the difference in impact point between 200 and 300 yards or 300 and 400 yards. The bullet will penetrate several FEET through a buffalo, for example, at 400 yards, more than a bullet from 300 Magnum will, but PLACING the shot is the problem the HV arm may have a point blank of near 300 yards so shots at 250 require not range compensation at all. With the HV arm its no sweat. With the blackpowder arm you better know the range beyond the loads point blank or you will over or undershoot the animal or at least the vital point.
The 50 RB has a pointblank of about 130 yards with a load making 1800-1900 fps. Shots to 150 are fairly easy IF the shooter has practiced with the rifle. Beyond this the problems increase dramatically. 10 MPH wind will produce a lot of wind drift at 100, enough that the shooter better know the hold for it. This is why comments on the RB as a hunting projectile need to be in the light of using it within its effective range.
Its the difficulty in placing the shot with a low velocity firearms is the limiting factor. The RB is about 200 yards max though it can be used at longer distances in combat, and was used to deny a spot to the enemy or even engage point targets like people at ranges to 300 yards. But few shooters shoot RB rifles at this distance and combat is not hunting. The goal is different.
For people who want to shoot animals past about 140 yards I recommend a modern HV arm.
Shooting a ML is not about how far one can kill a deer, its about being able to get within the range of a primitive weapon and making the shot from there.
I would also point out that in the early days of the HV smokeless arms that often used bullets that had poor expansion characteristics and lacked killing power compared the lead bullet BP arms in use. This is documented in a 1930s Western Cartridge Co. booklet.
Is energy completely meaningless. No. It indicates what level of work a projectile can be expected to do. But it favors high velocity projectiles. A round ball placed right, within its range, kills as well as anything, its also produces less meat loss often FAR less meat loss. Also energy expended on the hillside beyond the animal is meaningless to this discussion. Since the RB generally passes through a deer on a broadside shot it also has excess energy. Now is passing through it may actually do more damage with identical bullet placement and track through the target than a ball that stays in, but this will not necessarily produce a faster kill though I prefer pass through on broadside shots
Dan
