Enfield max load

[CUMMINS]

What would be a mx charge for a 2 and 3 band enfield, I believe they were designed for 60 or 70grs but will the newer italian rifles handle 100 or 120 like a TC renegade, just wondering. Thanks

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The rifle might hanle it but the skirt on the Minie will blow out and accuracy will be seriously compromised. That big, heavy Minie moving at well under sub-sonic velocities will get the job done very nicely. No need to try and make a magnum out of it.

 

[jdstrang]

If you have $80 or so worth of curiosity, get a Lyman 577611 mould ( http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/bpmold.htm ), with very thick skirts designed for loads in excess of 70 grains.

Curiosity's a great thing, unless you're a cat (or a shoulder, for that matter) but I agree with Russ T: 45 - 55 grains is plenty big medicine for a Minie/Burton load.

 

[TFoley]

The load for the Enfield in British service - and I believe that they were identical in just about every way when used by the oppsing sides in WoNA, was two and a half drams - just about 68gr of fine rifle powder.

Any much more than that and you run the chance of blowing the skirt out of the bullet.

It did the job for untold thousands of casualties then, why do you suppose it won't work now?

tac

 

[Dillohide]

You can get a bag of the Lyman 577611 Minie, 25 per bag for about $12. I got some to try from Track of the Wolf. The skirts are thick enough that you don't need to worry about distortion from shipping in a bag. They are 530 grain so will probably take a little more powder than a normal minie to center on target at 100 yards without changing your sight picture. I plan on starting with 65 grains ffg, then 70, 75 and maybe 80 if needed to see which gets closer to bulls eye. They are designed to take heavier loads for hunting. Where it will hit the target with heavier loads I don't know. My purpose is to center point of impact.

 

[torn moc]

AND let the Fun begin! Let us know how she shoots! I should have a new Enfield arriving in a Big Brow Truck any day now....cant wait!

 

[Jumpshot]

You can get a bag of the Lyman 577611 Minie, 25 per bag for about $12. I got some to try from Track of the Wolf.

I have some of those. I'm new to conicals and still trying to figure them out. How tight should they be? They're tight enough in my ArmiSport that it feels like they won't go downbore. It wouldn't go in the muzzle at all. I'm hestitant to try in case it turns out to be too big and then it's stuck. How do I know how tight they should be? Should I be able to start it past the skirt with just finger pressure, or what?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jumpshot: First you have to measure the bore( land to land) diameter and then the groove diameter. It sounds like your barrel is smaller in diameter than the minies you bought.

You can buy a sizing die to reduce the diameter of these bullets to fit your gun, with .001" LESS than the diameter of your bore being about optimum. Sizing dies are commonly used because of casting irregularities. Its no big thing to run these bullets through your sizing die, before you go shooting.

 

[Jumpshot]

You can buy a sizing die...

Casting my own, and also reloading ceterfire ammo, are other areas I've never gotten into even though I'd like to, having a habit of living in places where there's no room for it. I don't even know what a sizing die looks like. Can someone post a link to the type I'd need?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dixie GW's catalogue lists a sizing die for .58 caliber, that sized the minies down to .575". Its item GA1103 in their catalog. You should be able to find it in their on-line catalogue under " Sizing/Swaging Dies." Other dealers and manufacturers make these for existing presses for swaging or sizing bullets, and you can get them in any dimention you need, in .001" increments to fit your bore. That is why measureing the bore is so critical, rather than relying on whatever the manufacturer stamps on the barrel. Remember these barrels are usually made in Italy, or India, where the workers may be either illiterate, or familiar only with metric measurements. They may not know what a .001" is! Nor do the inspectors who ship the barrels out to buyers. The put certain markings on the barrel because that is what is ordered by the customer. To them, .58 Caliber means almost nothing at all. Check cataloges for Brownells, Track of The Wolf, Midway, Midsouth, Forster Products, and RCBS to see what dies they have available in the size you need.

 

[Jumpshot]

So you need a reloading press for this, right?

 

[paulvallandigham]

NO, not necessarily. I have run bullets through a "Cracker tool" reloading sizer tool , and I have also made due by putting the die in a vise, and using a mallet to hammer the bullets through the sizer. Usually,with soft lead, it doesn't take much strength or effort to get them to go through the die. The die looks like a hollow pie, that is constricted. The open end, where you start the bullet, is much wider than the other, and it squeezes the bullet down to the shape of the die's barrel. Its the same principle as choke in a shot gun. I once set up a screw on vise, on a pice of 3/4" hardwood board, clamped to my kitchen table with two C-clamps, to support the die, while I pushed several test slugs through it. I have a yankee workbench now, one of those things that can be folded up, but has a table top that parts in the middle and a screw that tightens and loosens the two boards so you can clamp wood in it for cutting, or other projects. I would probably use that, rather than the C-clamps on the kitchen table for this work, if I didn't have a work bench in my garage where I can mount a bench vise permanently.

Once you know your bore diameter, check with the N-S skirmishers, and the Civil War re-enactors about where they get their sizing dies. They have folks that make these dies specifically for those guns. Perhaps someone in that field will respond here and tell you the name of the company that makes their dies. I read about them here a few weeks ago, and I recall that you can usually find them at any of the large re-enactment events by visiting commercial row. If the dealers don't have what you want, they can get it, or tell you where to find it. Nice people, too.

 

[Jumpshot]

How about the Lee Handpress? Would it work with that?

 

[ResearchPress]

What would be a mx charge for a 2 and 3 band enfield, ....will the newer italian rifles handle 100 or 120

Is this just for academic interest or do you have a proposed purpose, eg. hunting or target shooting? Are you looking to improve 'stopping power' or improve accuracy?

If hunting then I will defer to others more knowledgeable on the subject than I as to the necessity for such high loads.

For target shooting with the Enfield and at 600 yards I use 75 grains of TPPH (UK proof house powder, with similar characteristics to Swiss #4(1.5F)). This works adequately in a 2-band Enfield - I won the National 600yd Championships last year. Here in the UK we also have occassional shoots with the Enfield at 800 yards, and I am not aware of anyone using loads as high as you suggest. I don't think loads used exceed 80/85 grains of the above powders even at this distance.

David

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

If, when you say normal Minie, you are referring to Civil War era Minies, then a 530 grain Minie is a little lighter than regulation. The standard charge in a Springfield was 60 grains of rifle powder and 68 grains in an Enfield. Given the number of dead men produced by these loads, I would say they knew what they were doing.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

I purchased a Dixie Gun Works GA1103 .575" sizing die just to make sure I don't have loading problems with the various pre-cast minie balls I have collected. I am experimenting with loading, lubing and shooting these projectiles but the results will not be in for a month or two, after the weather warms up.

I have purchased the following swaged and precast minie balls.
Dixie Gun Works:
BU0901 (Lyman 575213 new style)510 gr.
BU0906 (swaged Pritchett style)530 gr.
BA1103 (Lyman 575213-OS)475 gr.- poor castings

Moyer's
58 cal. (Lyman 575213-OS) 460 gr. - Excellent minie balls comes in boxes that fit nicely in a civil war cartridge box tin.

Track-of-the-Wolf
Ball-57-MINIE(Lyman 577611 Gardner style)550 gr.
Ball-58-MINIE(Lyman 575213-PH)560 gr.

Every one of those minie balls were sized at .575" OD through the DGW GA1103 .575" sizing die. It took about three moderate strokes with a lightweight brass firearm hammer and punch to drive each one through the DGW .575" die.

I have only fired the Moyer's 58 cal. (Lyman 575213-OS) minie so far using 50 gr. 3Fg GOEX which is equal to 60 gr. 2fg GOEX and 50 gr. #2 Swiss black powder. I like the way my P53 Enfield 3-band rifle musket loads and shoots Moyer's old style minies. Unfortunately since I bought 50 minies from Moyers, they now require up two months or more to fill orders for all cast minie balls, because of a labor shortage and popular demand. Lead is fast becoming unpopular among the "tree huggers" and the EPA. Soon we will be casting our own minies and making our own black powder.

I grew up in a dry, wind blown west Texas town of 20,000 people and when I was 10 to 15 years old, I could walk across town carrying a 30-30 Winchester saddle gun and no one would call the SWAT. Sadly, not anymore.

 

[Dillohide]

By normal minie I was talking about Lyman's minie 575213 which is about 505 to 510 grain. In my 1863 Remington 60 grains ffg puts the 575213 on the bulls eye or just left at 100 yards. It stands to reason that a little heavier bullet with a much thicker skirt will require a little more powder. How much more I will not know until this weekend. If it doesn't require more so much the better. These bag minies are a good way to try out several types and work up loads before buying the mold. I'm trying to hit targets not "Yanks" like my great great grandfathers did so how ever much powder it takes to get it centered is what I'm going to use.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu will need to contact Lee Precision to ask them if a particular die will work in their press. There is a link to their website, and I believe you can email them the question to get an answer. If you don't hear back the same day, call them on their 800 number and ask. Generally, most presses are designed to handle dies that have 7/8 x 14 treads.

 

[Coot]

So you need a reloading press for this, right?

I use a .575 die on minie balls for my P-H Enfield. I place the die in a vice on my workbench (the die is about 2" in dia. with a shoulder so it will rest on the jaws of the vise). I put some rags under the die to catch the sized minie & avoid any dents. I drive the minie thru the die with one firm whack with a mallet. I use a short length of 1/2" dia. hardwood dowel (with the end turned to match the cavity in the minie so there is no distortion) to drive the minie thru the die. Simple. Easy. Works.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I once owned a P/H two band and with the Lyman 530 grain as cast my best groups came in at 90 grains of RS Pyrodex. I started at 60 grains, fired a five shot group, then stepped up five grains. In that manner I worked up to 110 grains before recoil became excessive. Groups became progressively tighter up to 90 grains and then progressively larger above 90 grains. At 90 grains it would keep five shots in three inches at 100 yards.
However, I don't know if your barrel is even similar to the old Parker/Hale which used a progressive depth of rifling and 1-48" twist.