English half-stock fowler

[BCarp]

Recently acquired English fowling piece, 16 bore, 37" bbl, iron furniture:



Full picture album here:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BCarp/library/English Fowler

Original flint or well-done re-conversion? The lock is marked "I. Field" and has a roller frizzen and toggle-link between mainspring and tumbler. The cock looks shinier, so maybe a replacement?

Barrel is oct.-to-rnd, damascus steel, marked "TWISTED" and "STUBB" or "STUBS" on underside, with proof-marks crown-over-P and crown-over-V. No vent liner. The touch-hole is drilled directly into the bbl.

Walnut stock with checkered wrist, and horn nose-cap on forearm. No cheek piece.

The name "W. NORTH" is stamped on the gun in three places: butt-stock behind wrist, behind lock bolt (upside-down!), and on wrist escutcheon. An owner's name?

Wooden rammer with no outer tip, has iron tow worm affixed to inner tip.

Looks like, from the indent, it originally had a bead sight. Sloppily soldered blade sight replacement.

Very light (just over 6 lbs) and well-balanced. Nice bore with light surface rust but no pitting.

Please discuss...! :hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Excellent! Love the lines of British fowling guns.

The Crown over V is London, 1670 to 1955 (now that really narrows it down!).

But I don't see a Crown over P
http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

I'll alert the bunnies and grouse!

 

[BCarp]

Excellent! Love the lines of British fowling guns.

The Crown over V is London, 1670 to 1955 (now that really narrows it down!).

But I don't see a Crown over P
http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

I'll alert the bunnies and grouse!

Charlie, what fun would it be without a mystery?!

 

[pargent]

LONDON view and proof stamps post 1813 . Sweeeet gun

 

[pargent]

Possibly a reconversion back to flint, but it does look well done .

 

[rickystl]

Nice find!!! Great looking gun. There is always that something "extra" shooting an original. Congratulations! That one should be fun to shoot. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[BCarp]

So, ca. 1820-ish...?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Did find a pre-1813 private Birmingham 'view' and 'proof' mark that's similar but if so it'd be just before the change. I'd guess that "ish" is a pretty good description. Reguardless, that's a neat fowler, conversion or not. :thumbsup:

 

[BCarp]

I'm also thinking the muzzle was cut back about half an inch or so, probably due to wear or damage to the very thin barrel wall at the muzzle. The under-barrel rib comes right to the present muzzle, and the indent of the missing bead sight is right close to it, too....

 

[BCarp]

A friend has a copy of English, Irish and Scottish Firearms Makers by A. Merwyn Carey, 1954.
An entry therein says "I. Field (about 1780) shop at Tower Hill, London"....

 

[robinghewitt]

Looks good :thumbsup:

Hot tip: As soon as you see the top leaf of the pineapple turned over you say "1810". Everyone around is impressed and you won't be too far off the mark.

Next thing you do is run your thumb over the bottom of the butt plate. The wood has shrunk over 200 years but the iron hasn't. There should be a lip.

Two wedges is usually a sign of quality so as soon as you see it, you look for the other sign. Is the trigger sprung back against the sear bar to remove any possibility of slack?

 

[BCarp]

Looks good :thumbsup:

Hot tip: As soon as you see the top leaf of the pineapple turned over you say "1810". Everyone around is impressed and you won't be too far off the mark.

Next thing you do is run your thumb over the bottom of the butt plate. The wood has shrunk over 200 years but the iron hasn't. There should be a lip.

Two wedges is usually a sign of quality so as soon as you see it, you look for the other sign. Is the trigger sprung back against the sear bar to remove any possibility of slack?

Squire, upon examination I see that all the features you mention are present! :bow:

 

[robinghewitt]

marked "TWISTED" and "STUBB" or "STUBS"

That means it was for export to America. The Americans did not trust shotgun barrels unless clearly marked as twist and proof.

But guns made for export were not of this quality.

I suspect someone took this gun in part exchange, stamped it "TWISTED STUBBS" then shipped it to America where it could be sold for a tidy profit.

W NORTH could be a good candidate :thumbsup:

 

[BCarp]

marked "TWISTED" and "STUBB" or "STUBS"

That means it was for export to America. The Americans did not trust shotgun barrels unless clearly marked as twist and proof.

But guns made for export were not of this quality.

I suspect someone took this gun in part exchange, stamped it "TWISTED STUBBS" then shipped it to America where it could be sold for a tidy profit.

W NORTH could be a good candidate :thumbsup:

Interesting! One wonders how it came to these shores. So who would "Stubb" be (other than 2nd mate of the Pequod :grin: )? The barrel maker? An inspector?

 

[robinghewitt]

Wasn't Stubbs the guy who used to paint horses? :grin:

In this case I believe Stubb means remnant, the source of the metal that was twisted.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The only "I" or "J" Field that I can find in my sources for London during the time this gun was made traded under the name "Parker and Field". There was a John Field who worked in Birmingham during the early 19th century. Birmingham makers sometimes marked their barrels "London" and sometimes had them proofed in London. As well as I can see in the photos, the barrel finish seems to have the classic mottled or marbled pattern typical of stub twist barrels, which were made from horseshoe nails melted into skelps. They were some of the best barrels in the world at the time and commanded high prices. Yours could be a fake stub twist but the pattern looks authentic to me. The markings "Twisted" and "Stubb" make me suspicious though.

dave

 

[Joel/Calgary]

As well as I can see in the photos, the barrel finish seems to have the classic mottled or marbled pattern typical of stub twist barrels, which were made from horseshoe nails melted into skelps. They were some of the best barrels in the world at the time and commanded high prices. Yours could be a fake stub twist but the pattern looks authentic to me. The markings "Twisted" and "Stubb" make me suspicious though.

Just to elaborate for Carp, wrought iron has slag inclusions as part of its basic structure, and these are reduced but never eliminated in forging it to "refine" it, and in forging into the final item. The idea in using recovered horseshoe nail stubs was that the iron would have been further "refined" in forging into nails and maybe in the actual use, and also in the subsequent welding together into barrel skelp. Twisting the skelp minimised the the weakness that any given inclusion or other flaw might induce.

Regards,
Joel

 

[BCarp]

Thanks for the education, gents. I can now add "twisted stub skelps" to my vocabulary, and baffle all manner of family & friends...! :haha:

 

[BCarp]

UPDATE - back in the Fall, I gave the fowler to a gunsmith friend to deal with its only major flaw: the hideous replacement blade sight someone had messily affixed near the muzzle using about a pound of solder:


Using a lot of elbow grease, he was able to finally get rid of all that solder and clean out the original sight mortise:




Using the original mortise, he affixed a tiny blade of pure silver:



The final step was to match up the worked-on area of the muzzle with the barrel's overall patina. Here's the final result (I think he did a great job!):

 

[Wes/Tex]

Agree totally. It's a fine job of matching the style and aging! :thumbsup: