English trade knife?

[Banjoman]

Got these knives in a trade with some other stuff. I don’t know who made them or what steel or wood was used. They seem to be good knives, but I haven’t put them to work yet.

Would these be considered English trade knives? If not, what? And maybe what time period would they represent?

They are pinned (2 pins) but the painted handles make pins hard to see.

 

[Jaeger]

Look like reasonably correct styles. All you need to do is get that paint off the scales so you can see the wood and pins.

 

[Banjoman]

Thanks. I agree with taking off the paint.

 

[Tumbledown]

Paint might make for a poor grip when wet, something you don't want with a knife.

 

[LRB]

Got these knives in a trade with some other stuff. I don’t know who made them or what steel or wood was used. They seem to be good knives, but I haven’t put them to work yet.

Would these be considered English trade knives? If not, what? And maybe what time period would they represent?

They are pinned (2 pins) but the painted handles make pins hard to see.

View attachment 355224View attachment 355225

Got these knives in a trade with some other stuff. I don’t know who made them or what steel or wood was used. They seem to be good knives, but I haven’t put them to work yet.

Would these be considered English trade knives? If not, what? And maybe what time period would they represent?

They are pinned (2 pins) but the painted handles make pins hard to see.

View attachment 355224View attachment 355225

 

[LRB]

Not typical English, but better than some. English would typically have three small diameter pins in a line and an 80°/85° give or take, straight choil. An inward C choil would not be common. A rounded choil would be more French style.

 

[Banjoman]

Got er dun

 

[Artificer]

Got these knives in a trade with some other stuff. I don’t know who made them or what steel or wood was used. They seem to be good knives, but I haven’t put them to work yet.

Would these be considered English trade knives? If not, what? And maybe what time period would they represent?

They are pinned (2 pins) but the painted handles make pins hard to see.

View attachment 355224View attachment 355225

FWIW, I strongly suspect they are "Indian Trade Knives" sold by Clay Smith in the past. The styles of blades and grips changed a bit over the years and or different ones at the same time. Clay always advertised them as foreign made blades, but of decent steel.

To see what he has left, scroll down here:
https://claysmithguns.com/knives_fixed.htm

Gus

 

[Banjoman]

FWIW, I strongly suspect they are "Indian Trade Knives" sold by Clay Smith in the past. The styles of blades and grips changed a bit over the years and or different ones at the same time. Clay always advertised them as foreign made blades, but of decent steel.

To see what he has left, scroll down here:
https://claysmithguns.com/knives_fixed.htm

Gus

Thanks! You may be right. The paint sure does match. These knives are very light and I’ve started carrying one a little to see how it holds up.

 

[Banjoman]

I’ve been trying to use the larger one. Used it today to cut hay bale strings, but unless I held it just right the blade would flex sideways. Too flimsy for my liking.

 

[tenngun]

I’m thinking painted handles were seen on trade knifes

 

[French Colonial]

I’m thinking painted handles were seen on trade knifes

I would have left the paint on...
After a little use they would have looked good.

 

[Banjoman]

I would have left the paint on...
After a little use they would have looked good.

View attachment 380330

Perhaps, but as flimsy as the blades are, they won’t be used. They look okay from a distance and take a good edge, just too flimsy for me.

 

[LRB]

I’m thinking painted handles were seen on trade knifes

I have read that also but have seen no actual proof either way. There were painted Carolina trade guns so I would imagine there might well have been painted knives. I have read of some being painted red and some black, however the colors could have been natural red toned or blackish exotic woods and simply called red and black as a general description in trade manifests.

 

[tenngun]

Perhaps, but as flimsy as the blades are, they won’t be used. They look okay from a distance and take a good edge, just too flimsy for me.

Most early trade knifes were ‘flimsy’ very thin blades. It’s just a matter of care. I’ve skinned more then one deer with a jack knife you just have to take care.
All my knifes for my outfit are too thick compared to to the oldest originals I’ve seen
My knifes are my least hc part of my outfit or the rubber non slip soles on my shoes

 

[Banjoman]

Most early trade knifes were ‘flimsy’ very thin blades. It’s just a matter of care. I’ve skinned more then one deer with a jack knife you just have to take care.
All my knifes for my outfit are too thick compared to to the oldest originals I’ve seen
My knifes are my least hc part of my outfit or the rubber non slip soles on my shoes

Thanks! I didn’t realize early trade knives had thin blades. I’ll just stick with my Bowie knives and pocket knives. I ain’t skinning deer nowadays anyhow.

 

[LRB]

Thanks! I didn’t realize early trade knives had thin blades. I’ll just stick with my Bowie knives and pocket knives. I ain’t skinning deer nowadays anyhow.

They didn't have real thin blades in general. Typical examples of trade scalping knives were not flimsy thin. French types would be near or at 1/8" thick or slightly less, English at around 1/16" to 3/32". Both would have a distal taper to the point. For the most part of tempered steel. A well tempered 1/16" by 7" by 3/4" steel blade is quite stiff, resistant to flex, and more prone to crack or break than set bend under pressured side load.