Escopetas again

[BillinOregon]

I just sent this email to Chris Hirsch at Texasguntrades.com/parts.htm. Will certainly report any response.

Hi Chris:
Hope you and yours are enjoying the holidays.
There has been quite a bit of discussion about miquelet locks and escopetas in the pre-flintlock forum at muzzleloadingforum.com, including this thread in particular, which I started.
I am just curious if you have ever considered casting the parts for a miquelet, preferably rifle or shotgun size. The only current source I am aware of is The Rifle Shoppe.
If someone were to loan a good miquelet from which to make molds, do have any sense of what the resulting parts kit would sell for?
Thanks for your time.
Bill Powell
Sweetwater, TX

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/escopetas-again.173138/#post-2500747

 

[BillinOregon]

Well, I heard right back from Chris. If one of you with a fine example that you would loan want to reach out to him ...

Chris Hirsch​	6:16 AM (20 minutes ago)
to me

Hi Bill. I have been waiting for the opportunity to borrow a miquelet lock in fine condition. I’ve also been watching auctions for one. It would need to be an original, old one in fine condition. As for cost, I won’t know until I do one but it shouldn’t be much higher than a flintlock.

Chris
Antique Gun Parts Castings (texasguntrade.com)

 

[Commodore Swab]

There is also this company that offers them
Pirate Fashions

I have had many of their guns brought to me to be worked on. They look good from a distance but the build quality in the past has been worse than India. At one point I was approached to work for them but knowing the owner I turned them down.

 

[rickystl]

Bill: Good to hear from Chris Hirsch. OK, we've established it needs to be an ORIGINAL lock.
My thinking is a lock from about the mid to late 18th Century ? A size that would look appropriate for a rifle or fowler ? Larger than a large Siler lock. Maybe about the size of a Chambers round-faced lock. A size to give that "robust" look, but not quite military musket size ? Just trying to get some criteria here. What do you guys think ?

Rick

 

[rickystl]

By the way, here are some pics of the 1640ish French lock that Chris makes the castings for. Cool, early coffin shaped frizzen.

Rick

 

[Commodore Swab]

I have an original Italian roman lock but doubt there would be a customer desire base and it is very similar to the one TRS has.

 

[BillinOregon]

Rick, I would be interested in a lock that would be compatible with an escopeta, so that would leave out the small handgun locks, I believe. That French lock looks nice!

 

[Commodore Swab]

By the way, here are some pics of the 1640ish French lock that Chris makes the castings for. Cool, early coffin shaped frizzen.

Rick

View attachment 277347View attachment 277348View attachment 277349

Interesting how the tumbler comes thru and has a nut holding it on. I have an original Dutch (Rotterdam) with a similar setup. It's a "acorn" style nut slotted where you the thread is completely hidden. In outward appearance it looks like a weird screw until you unscrew and realize its a nut.

 

[rickystl]

I have an original Italian roman lock but doubt there would be a customer desire base and it is very similar to the one TRS has.

Hi Swab. I too have a couple of Roman style locks. But they are too worn to make decent castings. But it would be cool to have castings for both Roman and Spanish styles.

 

[rickystl]

Interesting how the tumbler comes thru and has a nut holding it on. I have an original Dutch (Rotterdam) with a similar setup. It's a "acorn" style nut slotted where you the thread is completely hidden. In outward appearance it looks like a weird screw until you unscrew and realize its a nut.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's like a transition from the snaphaunce and earliest doglocks where the cock and tumbler shaft are one piece.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Rick, I would be interested in a lock that would be compatible with an escopeta, so that would leave out the small handgun locks, I believe. That French lock looks nice!

Here is my TRS Escopeta. Proportion-wise for the lock, does this look about the right size ?

Rick

 

[Gun Tramp]

Holy cow. That's really, really neat.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I still have more to do on the stock but I was building this for a friend (RIP) and while not a miquelet it is Spanish 1740's.


One of the more miserable locks to build. If you notice with the chiseled lock plate there are no screws protruding thru, they are all bottom tapped into the lockplate! The sear engages thru the Plate via 2 pins attached with pins.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

For those fans of the Escopeta, I've attached PDF articles about escopetas and miquelet locks, that have some great photos!

Miquelet is a Catalan word used to describe irregular mountain fusiliers that we equipped with a distinctive form of snaphance lock. The name was later applied to the locks themselves. According to Claude Blair, there is no indication that the name was used historically, but in his revised edition of Pollard's History of Firearms, sticks to the term as it is considered a useful distinction nonetheless.

"The ‘classic’ miquelet lock has an external mainspring, two sears working through the main plate to give respectfully full and half-cock and a combined steel and pan-cover." - -Claude Blair, Keeper of Metalwork, Victoria & Albert Museum, 1983

The origins of the miquelet are unknown, but it probably derived off an early form of snaphance. By the early 17th century the miquelet lock was already fully developed and primarily used in Spain; remaining in use until the beginning of the 19th century.

 

[Sam squanch]

He needs to make large miquelet lock castings for muskets, maybe a smaller pistol size if it pans out. We need to raise a statue of Rick in old St Charles if he will loan a lock for a pattern!

 

[BillinOregon]

Rick, the lock on your TRS gun looks perfect -- as does the rest of the piece!

 

[kruzer1]

It is frustrating that they are so hard to find. I did get this lock from Old Guard Manufacture in Poland. Currently I am in the process of building one based off a picture of one from the 1620's. They do not have a regular web page but you can find them on Facebook. They might also build one.

 

[kruzer1]

I think there is a matchlock review of pirate fashions offering. As I recall it wasn’t good. It looks like their stuff is made in India also.

They had an inhouse gunsmith doing builds but he

 

[kruzer1]

Sorry must have pushed submit. They had an in house gunsmith building Miquelet's and wheelocks. I am not sure if he works there anymore but he has taken payment from me and others and failed to deliver merchandise. I paid for a wheelock mechanism in 2017 that has not been refunded or delivered. This individuals facebook page is filled with many others who had the same issue. Not sure if he is still working for them but I would be wary of going that route. At least make sure to have a deadline when complete.

 

[TobJohn]

Rickystl and billinOregon, my bank account now hates you both. Thanks to this thread, I now really want an escopeta. It also looks like the most appropriate gun for colonial California, so another layer of want.