Spanish Escopeta

[Uncle Miltie]

Hello ALL.

Here is another addition to my collection. I need another Spanish gun like I need a hole in my head, since I just had another custom made a year and a half ago. Here's the back story....
About a year ago, out of the blue, I received a PM from another Forum member. He had changed his mind and asked if I would be interested in a Spanish rifle kit from The Rifle Shoppe. Everything was there - including an ASSEMBLED lock - except the stock. And, he lived less than 100 miles from me. So, all things considered, especially with an assembled lock and no shipping cost, I turned weak and accepted his offer. We met at a half-way point. Unfortunately, it took me 7 months to get the stock (only) from TRS. But that's another story. LOL

Description: Spanish Light Military Escopeta. The Rifle Shoppe Kit #766.
LOCK: Typical Spanish patilla miquelet lock.
STOCK: Appears to be American walnut. Simple lock and side moldings. Iron button head ramrod, threaded for attachments. Brass hardware. 13.5-13.75" LOP.
BARREL: Colerain octagon to round smooth bore, 39" long, .69 caliber.
BUILDER: Brian Anderson

It has an antique type finish overall which turned out great. The lock sparks perfect (even with that dull band-sawed flint) LOL These escopetas are similar to the full size Catillian muskets of the period, but with a smaller, overall profile, and weighs in at about 8.5 lbs. They were simple, military style working guns used throughout the Spanish Colonial Frontier. Probably in use from about the Mid-18th through the early 19th Centuries. This would be an ideal gun to fit in most any Spanish Colonial impression.

Word of warning for those anticipating a build from a TRS Kit. Here is the gunsmith's opinion of the Kit before the build started:

"l usually avoid kits but l was curious / the stock was very coarsely done (length of pull restricted) and the forestock was shattered but salvageable. brass castings borderline but workable. The mainspring on the lock was double heavy even for a miquelet and had to be reduced to function. Good barrel and ramrod
The kit did copy an actual gun"
Brian

Anyway, alls well that ended well. Here are some pics. And thanks for looking.

Rick

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Noice!

 

[deerstalkert]

only redeeming value i can think of with sawn flints, you barely have to move the top jaw on the cock to change them.

 

[Rudyard]

Hi Deer

That band-sawed flint was sent with the finished gun. I didn't even try it out. I immediately changed it to a knapped flint.
I remember using those band-sawed flints when they were first introduced back in the 1970's. They worked, but thought the knpped flints made more sparks.

Rick

Frank Strieghts' Forge fire 'ceramic flints was out of Bell View ? near Seatle might be some space rocket spin off . He made a trade gun too about 1971 or 2 .
Rudyard

 

[John Spartan]

Ceramic flints?

 

[Rudyard]

Ceramic flints?

Yes thats what they where R

 

[rickystl]

only redeeming value i can think of with sawn flints, you barely have to move the top jaw on the cock to change them.

I remember that also. You could use both sides of the flint. Turn them up or down. I seem to recall they were easier to re-sharpen the edge using a ceramic file versus knapping.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Thank you ALL for your additional responses. Much appreciated. Since there seems to be some interest in these Spanish guns, I'll re-post another one from long ago on a new Thread in this Photo's Forum. It's a bit of a mystery I think some will enjoy.

Rick

 

[Dagfoto]

Interestingly I ran across this forum.

I aquired one of these some 40 years ago.. and have been doing some research on it from time to time..
in time I found the maker to be "Bustindut" , i believe..

barrel length is 22 1/2 and overall 33 1/4
still in excellent working condition.

 

[rickystl]

Dag: That is a great looking Spanish blunderbuss (trombone). Looks all original and complete. Curious the blunderbuss remained popular in Spain as a personal protection weapon all the way through the percussion era, well after it's popularity faded in most of the rest of Europe. I've read where they were easy to conceal under a cloak using a single point sling.

Rick

 

[Hermanoshawken]

Hello, since I am Spanish, I would like to say something about that shotgun. We will start by saying that in addition to the books by Neal and Lavin, we must cite "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America, 1700-1821", by Brinckerhoff, Sydney B. and Chamberlain. Also in volume I of the work "Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865" by Garavaglia and Worman, briefly deals with the arms of the Spanish Empire in the Viceroyalty of New Spain, that is, what would later become Mexico. This shotgun has a Catalan-style stock and the lock is a "patilla lock". It was called miquelet, for the French soldiers who invaded Spain in the War of Independence (1808-1814), since miquelets or miqueletes (migueletes in Spanish castellano) were the Catalan name for Spanish guerrillas who acted against the French, and who wore shotguns (fowlers) with that type of lock. This lock , with the outer main spring, was already made in Spain at the end of the 16th century (between 1570 and 1590 it may have been invented in its most primitive version). The Marcuarte (Marquarthz in German), Simón Jr. and Pedro, already made them and Simón Sr. was brought from Germany by King Felipe IIº, to work in the court of Madrid, making guns with wheel locks. It was Simón Jr. who perfected the patilla lock, of which there are four variants (de agujeta, a la invención o la romana, de patilla propiamente, y de calzo atrás). They were made all over Spain, but above all by the "Ripoll Catalan school", by the "Madrid school of arquebusiers, in the 18th century" and later in the Basque Country, in the 18th and 19th centuries. Also in its percussion version. One of the best known gunsmiths from the Basque school (Eibar town) was Bustinduy. But in the 1795 book "Historical Compendium of the Arquebusiers of Madrid", written by Isidro Soler, one of the last royal arquebusiers in the period of flintlock shotguns, all the royal arquebusiers since the 17th century are cited. The patilla lock in its four versions is already mentioned by Alonso Martínez de Espinar in his 1645 book, "Treatise on Arquebusry and Ballestery". He also mentions the existence of grooved arquebuses or shotguns (they are synonymous words, english rifles) and the use of wads and patches to wrap the bullets, for hunting big game. In Spain there were hardly any rifled shotguns (rifles) for the common people, since the same smoothbore weapon (shotgun or fowler) was used for small or large game, since deer and wild boar were shot at short distances with round ball, about 40 yards as much.
And yes, the reason why the frizzen goes with grooves is because the Spanish flint was of worse quality than the French or English ones and thus almost any flint sparked and the lock would not fail.

In any case, the truth is that the patilla lock is after the wheel lock and very little after the Snaphaunce lock. But it is already a true flintlock lock, but it predates the French one by Marin le Bourgeoys, which was invented around 1620. Le Bourgeoys merged in his design the best of the Snaphaunce lock and the best of the Spanish lock, that is to say the "patilla lock".
Best regards friends.

 

[Rudyard]

Very interesting summation if I got a bit lost in the reading of it . I am very fond of the Patilla lock in all its many varients European, African & Asiatic .Thank you & Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

That is really impressive looking. I enjoyed seeing it and how nicely it is preserved.

 

[Rudyard]

That is really impressive looking. I enjoyed seeing it and how nicely it is preserved.

Dear Merrwhether Ime unsure am I some how paid the 30 $ if its not been paid let me know & Ile get my Duaghter who has a credit card to remit the needed . Ime seemingly paid but really dont know how or by who if any !? Ettery was buying some book I have on Hawkens . Gus wants a Scots dirk blade . pm me then Ile know for sure . Fiscally bumbling ,
Your Servant Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Hello, since I am Spanish, I would like to say something about that shotgun. We will start by saying that in addition to the books by Neal and Lavin, we must cite "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America, 1700-1821", by Brinckerhoff, Sydney B. and Chamberlain. Also in volume I of the work "Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865" by Garavaglia and Worman, briefly deals with the arms of the Spanish Empire in the Viceroyalty of New Spain, that is, what would later become Mexico. This shotgun has a Catalan-style stock and the lock is a "patilla lock". It was called miquelet, for the French soldiers who invaded Spain in the War of Independence (1808-1814), since miquelets or miqueletes (migueletes in Spanish castellano) were the Catalan name for Spanish guerrillas who acted against the French, and who wore shotguns (fowlers) with that type of lock. This lock , with the outer main spring, was already made in Spain at the end of the 16th century (between 1570 and 1590 it may have been invented in its most primitive version). The Marcuarte (Marquarthz in German), Simón Jr. and Pedro, already made them and Simón Sr. was brought from Germany by King Felipe IIº, to work in the court of Madrid, making guns with wheel locks. It was Simón Jr. who perfected the patilla lock, of which there are four variants (de agujeta, a la invención o la romana, de patilla propiamente, y de calzo atrás). They were made all over Spain, but above all by the "Ripoll Catalan school", by the "Madrid school of arquebusiers, in the 18th century" and later in the Basque Country, in the 18th and 19th centuries. Also in its percussion version. One of the best known gunsmiths from the Basque school (Eibar town) was Bustinduy. But in the 1795 book "Historical Compendium of the Arquebusiers of Madrid", written by Isidro Soler, one of the last royal arquebusiers in the period of flintlock shotguns, all the royal arquebusiers since the 17th century are cited. The patilla lock in its four versions is already mentioned by Alonso Martínez de Espinar in his 1645 book, "Treatise on Arquebusry and Ballestery". He also mentions the existence of grooved arquebuses or shotguns (they are synonymous words, english rifles) and the use of wads and patches to wrap the bullets, for hunting big game. In Spain there were hardly any rifled shotguns (rifles) for the common people, since the same smoothbore weapon (shotgun or fowler) was used for small or large game, since deer and wild boar were shot at short distances with round ball, about 40 yards as much.
And yes, the reason why the frizzen goes with grooves is because the Spanish flint was of worse quality than the French or English ones and thus almost any flint sparked and the lock would not fail.

In any case, the truth is that the patilla lock is after the wheel lock and very little after the Snaphaunce lock. But it is already a true flintlock lock, but it predates the French one by Marin le Bourgeoys, which was invented around 1620. Le Bourgeoys merged in his design the best of the Snaphaunce lock and the best of the Spanish lock, that is to say the "patilla lock".

Mucho grathias R

Best regards friends.

I came by a barrel with the marks of Alonzo Martienz clearly old & it had a Sicle mark. I believe Martinez was Tutored with a link.to the Marquarts. He died 1720 so was remarkablely well cared for . I also stocked up a barrel by ' Roxas' who gets a mention in Solers book his mark an Elliphant Ime mateing it to the original parts of a gun by Twigg very fitting as many English makers stocked up these esteamed barrels .Some perhaps picked up on their patrons 'Grand Tours ' .NB No spoilation of their original state I mated the full stock Martinez & the Roxas had earlier been made up half stocked & put to cap but rudely so it will go back to flint. All I got was the barrel.I did bowl a bunny with Allonso mated to an original Ketland lock though in date its very late for a full stock fowler. Not all customer,s followed the London Dandy fashions and he got what He wanted old fashioned or not ! .De Witt Bailey wrote an excellent article in the UK MLAGB journal ' Black Powder' on this very subject I have my copy I doubt De Witt would mind we where good friends of many years..along with Bill Curtis both Gone now , David Harding, David Edge, Ian Ford ,David Baker ,Any worthy authors I sent them info on Whitworths or what ever for their study. I would aid any author who helped us all as' Students of arms 'as he De Witt modestly put on his letter heads. Ime a dim wit but I got around quite a lot and rarely missed a museum & they like Ice bergs seldom show but one eight of the visible contents. And half a chance ime in like Flynn whoever he was . Rambleing Rudyard Who can talk the leg off an Iron pot