Ethical Dilemma?

[USMA65]

I was talking with my wife about the upcoming hunting season and the fact that because of physical restraints, its just going to be different from any other year since the 60's. I can not by myself shoot and drag anything out of the woods. Most of my friends here in E TN are bird hunters, which I also enjoy (grouse and woodcock). However, I have a new to me TC 45 Hawken that I wish to use in the deer woods. TN decided that wild hogs are protected, except in certain areas. Yes, protected, or at least illegal to shoot. It seems that the TWRA feels that hunters are the cause of the spread of feral hogs. But I digress. Here is my dilemma. If a hunter takes a deer and does not drag it out for processing, but instead, field strips the cuts he wants, leaves the rest, do you have a problem? I could see shooting a deer , or hog where legal, and removing certain portions, placing the meat in plastic bags and walking out. I know they do this out west all of the time, but this isn't the west, it's the south, and most people don't do that. So, what are your thoughts?

 

[Trench]

I think I would first check the legal aspect. I know that here in Indiana, you cannot quarter your deer in the field. It is quite illegal.

 

[Walks with fire]

I doubt it's legal to just cut the prime portions from a deer and leave the rest lay; I don't know for sure but I doubt it. Each state probably has their own rules on it so you need to call and ask your game commission office what the rules are.

 

[USMA65]

Never even dawned on me that it might be illegal. I guess I figured that since it is done out west that as long as you were not blatantly wasteful, it would just be a question of ethics....which when you write that, is the basis of legality. Now I feel really stupid :hmm:

 

[Trench]

Got this from the TN hunting guide:

Field Dressing Big Game: Evidence of species or sex of big game animals must not be destroyed prior to a permanent kill tag having been
issued. Normal field dressing, quartering, and icing down of the meat
is permitted.

 

[Walks with fire]

I think some of the wheeled carts available would enable a single person to load and move a deer. Getting it in the car or truck can be a bit more of a problem but a sheet of 3/4" plywood can be rested on the tailgate; side the deer up the ramp; lift the back end and slide it in. I think that method would work for the hitch mounted grated carriers on the back as well.

The best place to shoot a deer is always as close to the truck as possible. Sounds like you need to line up a few hunting partners; it's never a good idea to hunt alone anyway although I do it all the time. We have a special flinter season here in PA and there are lots of groups that do it alot so finding some people to go with is not an issue; maybe you need to get out there and see who is doing it. If there is a will there is a way.

 

[roundball]

Yes, protected, or at least illegal to shoot. It seems that the TWRA feels that hunters are the cause of the spread of feral hogs.

That's insane...if they really believe that then there's no telling what regs they might have in place...and if they're concerned about the spread why would they protect them?
:shake:

Agree with previous posts about checking to be sure...but there's no question the practice has long been established generally speaking, of quartering/packing out only usable sections.

In addition, within the past decade we've seen a big rise in the publicity and use of the so called "top down field butchering" technique.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/phot...us-instruction-videos?photo=0#node-1000014436

 

[rabjr]

Having hunted the past 32 years as a paraplegic and the past 15 or so pretty much alone most of the time, ya I would have a problem with that if I came across that scene. Besides being illegal here it would just down right piss me off. I have over the years adapted certain ATVs that are my legs in getting me into and out of the woods and once where I want to go, become my hunting stand. I've dragged more than a few out of the woods with its help and a rope...Of course it can only be used on private property though. But I only need help getting the deer into and hung up in the Cooler...

 

[luieb45]

No I wouldn't do that and yes I'm sure it's illegal, at least it is in most states. Out west they don't just take their "favorite cuts" they cut out all the meat and pack it back in so they don't have to take the whole deer. If it's really that big of a physical issue about dragging in a deer it looks like you should find somebody that could help you if you kill one or borrow a four wheeler or something.

 

[BrownBear]

I know they do this out west all of the time, but this isn't the west, it's the south, and most people don't do that. So, what are your thoughts?

I think that's way too broad a statement. Each state varies on what you have to bring out. Yeah, due to the distances and terrain field butchering is pretty common in some places to cut down on weight. But most states specify what parts you're required to bring out.

Here in Alaska there's a law about what we call "wanton waste" which specifies you have to bring out ALL edible meat from the animal right down to the neck meat and meat from between the ribs. And they enforce the heck out of it, to the point of meeting plane loads of hunters to inspect their meat packs, dropping into field camps and inspecting meat caches, and even checking kill sites after hunters have departed. Lotta hunters from other states try to apply their local wanton waste laws to Alaska and end up with their tender parts in a legal vise.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I guess it depends on the "cuts you want". If you want all 4 quarters, backstraps, neck roast,tenderloins, and rib meat, go for it.

You would need to pack out the head or a hind quarter with genitals attached to be 100% square with the law. Of course your temporary kill tag will have to be attached to something.

Check your deer on line for a permanent kill tag.

It has been my experience from years of hunting in Tn that you are more likely to be struck by lightning than being checked by a game warden while you are hauling a deer home.

I hunt evenings and always got my deer out of the woods after the Tn checking stations had closed. Some became Alabama deer as soon as I crossed the state line, most of the time I drove back to Tn the next day to exchange my temporary kill tag for a permanent one. On line checking eliminated the previous game checking problems.

Even though Tn came up with some really screwy hog killing regulations, the game warden told the land owner where I hunt he would find something to give me a ticket for If I didn't kill every hog I saw.

The regs are an example of bureaucratic bumbling, I don't expect them to be around very long.

 

[longcruise]

Personally, I would consider it unethical unless you took out all the edible meat. We do follow that practice here in the west especially with elk, but we do not abandon edible meat. Heart and liver are often left behind and they are not considered required to be saved.

If you bone out a white tail and remove all the edible meat, you will only have about 40 to 60 pounds of meat. Should be able to figure out how to get it out.

I'm in the same situation as you physically (hopefully only this year) and plan on de-boning if necessary on my deer hunt. It's good to have hunting partners to help with getting your animal out! :grin:

 

[petew]

If you can not get the meat out you need to hunt with someone that can. As for "only taking the parts you want", that is just wrong. You take all edible meat, or stay home. This leaves a choice to hunt with someone that will help get your meat out, or don't hunt if you can't do it yourself.

You mentioned plastic bags. Plastic will spoil fresh meat in short order. Use cloth game bags to let the meat cool, breath, and keep it clean.
Horn doesn't spoil, bring out the meat first!!
Perhaps mentoring a strong lad that wants to learn hunting is a good option. Your knowledge and his muscle can make a good team.

 

[BrownBear]

...and plan on de-boning if necessary on my deer hunt.

It's really pretty straight forward. With a good knife and your head screwed on straight, it doesn't take more than half an hour.

Buddy of mine has three vertebrae fused and a gimpy knee. He uses one of those wheeled carts to carry his hunting pack into the hills. When it's time to hunt, he stashes it in a central location and hunts around it. No deer, fetch it and move to the next spot. Kill a deer, and either fetch the cart or haul the smaller meat hunks back to the cart.

Looking at 60 fade over the horizon in my rear view mirror, I'm taking notes on his cart and strategy.

 

[Supercracker]

I can't remember the name of it. But a while back I saw an ad for what amounted to a small, battery powered winch. You looped it to a tree 50 yds away from the kill, pulled out the cable(?) and drug it to the tree with the winch. Then move to another tree 50 yds away. So you drag it out in 30 or 50 yd increments.

Maybe that's an option.

There's a WMA in S fl that is narrow and very long with the only non boat access at one extreme end. You can end up a couple/three miles from the truck easy. The rules say you have to remove animals whole. I asked a warden about it and he said the penalty for not bringing it out whole was $25 and nothing else. I told him Id' just pay the fine. He said he didn't blame me and there was probably no one there who would ever actually cite you in that situation.

So there's that to consider as well.

 

[USMA65]

Yes, protected, or at least illegal to shoot. It seems that the TWRA feels that hunters are the cause of the spread of feral hogs.

In addition, within the past decade we've seen a big rise in the publicity and use of the so called "top down field butchering" technique.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/phot...us-instruction-videos?photo=0#node-1000014436

This is what I was talking about...not wanton waste. I saw guys on TV hunting shows doing what I thought was this and assumed you could do the same with a deer or hog....minus the plastic bags, thank you.

 

[BrownBear]

...and assumed you could do the same with a deer or hog....

Yeah, we do it all the time with deer. In brown bear country we relish the plastic bags though. No desire to have a dripping bloody pack on your back, leaving a blood trail wherever you go. The important thing is to get the meat out of the plastic bags ASAP once you're back home, to allow it to drain, air and cool. We usually do that for about an hour, wipe it, then put it in new bags in the refrigerator to chill overnight before butchering.

As for edible parts, that's a personal taste thing as well as a legal question for your particular state.

We'd never consider leaving a kill site without the heart, liver, kidneys and tongue. We also strip the thin mesh of fat off the stomach (we call it lace) to wrap around roasts. We also take all the fat we can get out of the body cavity for use in sausage, burger. Our deer (Sitka blacktails) have a sweet fat that's not tallowy, so we even leave some in place like beef as we butcher. Same for moose and elk. I don't know of any deer anywhere else with the sweet fat, so I won't look down my nose at anyone elsewhere who didn't go to the trouble we do.

 

[roundball]

Yes, protected, or at least illegal to shoot. It seems that the TWRA feels that hunters are the cause of the spread of feral hogs.

In addition, within the past decade we've seen a big rise in the publicity and use of the so called "top down field butchering" technique.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/phot...us-instruction-videos?photo=0#node-1000014436

This is what I was talking about...not wanton waste. I saw guys on TV hunting shows doing what I thought was this and assumed you could do the same with a deer or hog....minus the plastic bags, thank you.

Correct, not advocating wanton waste at all.
If I was in a situation where I could legally remove/pack out the normally acceptable edible portions, I would not consider it unethical at all to leave things like the lower legs/hooves/rib cage/vertebrae, etc, etc.
I would have shown due diligence and whatever little remains would be left would never go to waste...nothing ever goes to waste in nature.

 

[Robert Egler]

While legally in NC you can shoot a deer, properly report it and tag it, and then leave the whole thing in the woods if you want, you can't deface a game animal so that its gender is not apparent while in the field.

I find a couple of deer each year where the antlers have been sawn off the skull and the rest of the animal is left to rot. Officially discouraged, but perfectly legal here. Ethically questionable.

 

[Moose Guide]

Here in B.C. it is legal to use the gutless method as long as you don't waste the edible portions(meat derstroyed by method of taking[blood shocked]can be left). If it is legal in your state look up gutless field dressing on you tube, once you try it you won't bother gutting another large animal or any big game you have to drag or pack! I guide for moose and can usually pack one out in 6 loads.