Ethics Question

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I have a ladder stand that has been placed 4 miles back in a thick swamp (State Land)in the thumb area of Michigan. This is a sacred spot to me and their are only 2 people known to me to know its location. It requires about 2 1/2 hours to get to it due to having to crawl and duck through deer trails a man should never go through. I have never seen another hunter back that far or even near the stand. Every year the stand produces 2 great bucks. I do not even hunt this stand with a gun because it makes a loud bang and I refuse to let anyone else know where this stand is. So I bowhunt during gun season from this spot besides theres no shot over 15 yards anyways. My buddy whose like a brother to me helped me get a buck out of there last year and apparently GPS'd the stand location without my knowledge and notified me he has been hunting it. Even though its on public land do I have the right to be upset by it, the only other guy who knows its location is my father and he respects things and refuses to hunt it even when I told him it was ok I mean I am deployed to Afghanistan I am not there but will be for late gun season, and planned to hunt there. Is it a bullcrap thing to do to a hunting buddy and friend to weasle in on his set up and hunt his stuff especially when he was taken there to help you then gps'd the location without asking or telling you he was doing it. Especially when he knows you will be back to hunt it in a month. Or am I over reacting..

 

[mooman76]

Maybe over reacting a little. It isn't your land but still he broke your trust. Years ago my dad had a friend that retired from the military and moved back home where we lived. My dad as a friend started taking him out fishing to all hies spots. No big secret but my dad spent allot of time and years finding these spots. After he learned where to go the next thing he knew he the guy was going out all the time and wasn't asking my dad to go along, ever. My dad stayed casual friends with him but didn't see him much at all anymore. I think maybe even though you gave up your secret spot and are upset about it but maybe as a friend you feel betrayed even more.

 

[necchi]

Public land, :idunno:

It's just a matter of time before someone else finds it anyway,,
People do, do fly overs,,

He's your friend, if he gets a deer you get half the meat. I mean you did give him half of the one he helped you drag out,, Right?

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Well truth be told I give him meat all the time the man is cursed like Rueben from Escanaba in da Moonlight. I have know the guy my whole life and he has been hunting for over 20 years and has gotten i think 3 deer ever and is still a buckless wonder.. The stand has been out there for 12 years now and I set up a detection system on the ladder that lets me know if someone has been there. Also there is no way of seing the stand from the air there is very very very little canopy from the thickness. Its pretty dark back there even during the day doesn't get much light.

 

[flyfisher76544]

At least your bud told you he was hunting it. Just tell him that you are looking forward to hunting it when you get back and see if he'll let it 'cool off' for like 2 weeks before you get back. Ask him what he has seen out there, kinda like a scouting report. I understand how you feel about it, but it is public land. Hope your trip home is an easy one. :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I'm with you. It's a betrayal. Yeah, it's public land, but there's lots of public land for him to hunt on. He'd never have known about it without you. This yoyo knew it was special to you and why you go there, and stepped all over that. I'd be done with him.

 

[Sperit de bois]

With your description of what it takes to get to it,it probably won't get used anyway...and if it does I bet it won't be more than a once!!!!!!!2 1/2 hrs in and 2 1/2 out=5 hours of lost hunting time,,and if he gets a deer,,then time goes out the window.....
Over reacting??????? Your buddy is breaking a trust,,but .........

 

[Vaino]

Throuhout the years have hunted w/ many guys...some relationships "stuck" but most didn't for various reasons. It boils down to respect and how much your friendship is valued by this "friend". Possibly, not much of either.

Possibly you being in Afghanistan gave him the rationale that he wasn't violating your trust and upon your return, will cease hunting there. Afterall, he did tell you that he hunts there....which he didn't have to do.

Public land means just that, but your "friend" possibly sacrificing your friendship isn't what friends do. If he's a longtime friend, discuss the matter and hopefully a solution can be found....if not, is he really your friend?......Fred

 

[don hepler]

I had a hunting buddy like this, he couldn't get a deer, unless I pointed it out to him. So I really didn't worry about him taking all the trophies. Even on the rare occassions when he did get something, it would usally be a tiny doe or button buck, and he'd be as excited as if it was a monster.

He would accuse me of taking the best stands, or moving thru the woods using him to run game to me, playing the wind. Truth is, I did, because I knew him and what his moves where going to be, and he didn't have a clue where to set-up on a stand. He would get buck fever and miss. The fact is at the range he was a better shot than me.

I shared the game with him. He helped me drag them out. Helped me put up stands. He done most of the butchering. We laughed and enjoyed the trips back and forth, to where we hunted.

My walls are covered with huge bucks, and he has one nice 8 pt. on his wall. I'm 62 and he's 74 and he doesn't hunt anymore.

I put another trophy on the wall last year. I wouldnt even tell my buddy about it, I wouldn't want to make him feel bad.

Point is, life is short, good friends are harder to find than trophy bucks.

 

[Robby]

Little John, You didn't tell him where your girl friend lives did you?
Robby

 

[WH .50]

I can relate to this so I'll give my opinion. Myself and 3 of my close friends have a 300 acre lease together. We have "work days" in the off season where we cut trails,maintain roads,put up stands,etc. This being said we all know where each other's stands are because we helped each other put them up. We hardly ever hunt each other's stands,but if for some reason we did decide to want to hunt another man's spot,we ALWAYS call and ask first.I have never turned one of the guys down if they wanted to hunt one of my stands but I expect that call first,as do they. It's a respect thing,plain and simple. To add to this,one of my best stands is in a tree that is FULL of poison oak. I was blessed at birth to not be allergic to poison oak but unfortunately none of the other guys were blessed in this way. Accident? I think not!! :rotf:

 

[VEARL]

I hunt public land most of the time. When I'm scouting for places to set my ground blind, I try to see if other hunters are using the area.
I have stumbled upon hunters and said I'm sorry, then leave and not return to his area. Just doing what is right.
Have had hunters set up tree stands in front of me and never knew I was there. When I stood up, some volunteered to move there stands and some did not. I just moved up wind a little ways and built another ground blind, if I hadn't seen any deer from the old location.
Aim small, Miss small,Try it again.
Vearl

 

[hoochiepapa]

I'm with you. It's a betrayal. Yeah, it's public land, but there's lots of public land for him to hunt on. He'd never have known about it without you. This yoyo knew it was special to you and why you go there, and stepped all over that. I'd be done with him.

+1
I have always hunted public land. My grandfather taught my dad where to hunt, and he taught me. The eastern slopes are hard to hunt, because there is so much pivate land, but it can be done by studying maps. I have multiplied the area my family hunts by studying maps, and walking boundaries.
I made the mistake of showing a co-worker some of the area I hunt, with the provision that he promise to tell no one, and the next thing I know, the area is crawling with hunters. My dad was furious with me. Luckily, most of them were road hunters, and never got out of their truck.
But this is the only heritage I will get from my dad's side. Granted, it's public land, but it was a lot of work doing what I and my ancestors did to make sure we knew where we were all the time. I feel that someone who barges in on your secret place has stolen from you, and that doesn't make them much of a friend in my book.

 

[rabjr]

and apparently GPS'd the stand location without my knowledge and notified me he has been hunting it.

Any friend of mine would have asked if it was ok to hunt from that stand, public or not...

 

[larry wv]

You are right. It was a bad thing to do to you. Larry

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I don't know your buddy and haven't had the pleasure of actually meeting you so don't have a reason to back either of you...,

Even though its on public land do I have the right to be upset by it,

Nope not a bit. At no time in your posting have you mentioned that you told him it was your special spot, AND not to hunt it. Since it's on public land you would only have had your friendship as a bond to keep him off, but since you didn't make it plain to him you have no beef with him (imho).

One of my friends and I have a good spot on the local public lands, I found it, and showed it to him, and never told him not to hunt it without me.., so when he hunts it without me because I have to work etc etc, I cannot complain.

This yoyo knew it was special to you and why you go there, and stepped all over that. I'd be done with him

But did he? He probably knew it was a great place to hunt because of the stories told, but..., unless the poster told him "don't use that stand in that spot; I plan to use it when back in the USA and I don't want it over hunted" (or some other paraphrased comment)..., he didn't "know", nor would I expect him to know.

Especially if he's a buckless yooper you should've expected him to try that site. :haha: If he didn't kill anything has he really caused a problem?

Your buddy is breaking a trust

He's not breaking a "trust" unless he told others, OR hunted there after being told not to do so. Arguments of "he should've known" are specious, for then he would've known not to tell the poster he'd been back there. :wink:

If he was being a schmuck he could easily have put up his own stand on the next tree, looked you right in the face upon your return, and truthfully state "I didn't hunt your stand. ", or simply never said a word.

There's too much assumin' going on in this case.

"Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead" - Ben Franklin

LD

 

[crockett]

I agree with larry wv. It's unethical. He should have asked before using it. Yes, it is public land but he stole your time, skill, and effort in finding that location to suit his own needs.
Here's how I see it, each stand ought to be respected. You cannot overhunt a stand without destroying its value. When I use a stand I wear rubber boots, sneak in a couple of hours before light, and sit still. Sitting still is extremely hard and you can have an out of body experience and go nuts as the bugs bite you. Now let's say someone comes in without rubber boots and moves around in your stand, and basically advertises to every creature in the area that they need to look in that tree- deer DO LOOK in trees and avoid such areas if they are warned. Encroaching on someone else's stand is a NO NO.
And, I have multiple stand locations so I don't hunt each spot more than a few days a year. It is my experience deer can have long memories.
On the public land aspect. I am and used to be more so- a trapper. A lot of trappers use public land but moving in on some one else's trap is a real NO NO and I believe in some areas, ilegal even if on public land.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Encroaching on someone else's stand is a NO NO.

Is it when it's on public land? Here in Maryland for example one cannot hunt deer with dogs as it's thought to be wrong, but in other Southern states it's one of the common methods of hunting deer. Also here one must remove the stand from the public land at the end of the day, or it's "abandoned". So we must be careful when we apply what would be the custom of our locals to behaviors in other areas.

In MI the law clearly says you must place a name tag on your stand, and "Your name on a tree stand or ground blind on public land does not guarantee exclusive use. "

So how is it OK for some stranger to have used his stand, but his close friend is excluded? If it's codified in the law then the situation has come up in the past.

I'm surprised the stand was left in the woods in the first place..., anybody who happened to scout that area would see it as a sure fire sign of a good place to put up a stand..., so take down the stand that's there and move it 50 or so yards away, and install their own stand.

LD

 

[BrownBear]

Encroaching on someone else's stand is a NO NO.

Is it when it's on public land? Here in Maryland for example one cannot hunt deer with dogs as it's thought to be wrong, but in other Southern states it's one of the common methods of hunting deer. Also here one must remove the stand from the public land at the end of the day, or it's "abandoned". So we must be careful when we apply what would be the custom of our locals to behaviors in other areas.

In MI the law clearly says you must place a name tag on your stand, and "Your name on a tree stand or ground blind on public land does not guarantee exclusive use. "

So how is it OK for some stranger to have used his stand, but his close friend is excluded? If it's codified in the law then the situation has come up in the past.

I'm surprised the stand was left in the woods in the first place..., anybody who happened to scout that area would see it as a sure fire sign of a good place to put up a stand..., so take down the stand that's there and move it 50 or so yards away, and install their own stand.

LD

That's all true in legaleze, but it doesn't get to the morality. Not the same thing at all.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Ok maybe I should have said Stay Out of my Stand but they guy asked me for 10 years where the stand was and I told him it was a secret and I didn't want anyone else there. True I don't own the land its on since its public land. And the only reason i knew he was hunting it was my old man waited for him to come out of the woods when he seen his truck parked and when he got back several hours after dark my old man asked him if he was hunting my set and he did admit to it. He never gave the courtesy ask, and i know he snuck the gps spot in when I was gutting the buck. He had every intention of doing it behind my back. It requires a straight west wind to hunt it and I only am able to hunt it, maybe a few times out of the year. I have great luck there sat it 5 times the last 2 years and shot 4 bucks between 125-150 inches and missed one the other time. It one of those magical spots we all dream of where you see more bucks then does, and see deer all day long you just have to wait for a shooter. Yes he is my friend and has been my whole life and I love the guy but he is a stink dude who farts alot, drinks alot, throws trash on the ground, and doesn't play the wind. I take ever advantage I can, shower, leave no trash or human sign the best I can. Thats a major key to shooting a solid buck not just a deer, he doesn't get it even though I tried to talk sense into the boy. You can sit in the greatest stand in the world and not see anything if your not careful. He has hunted it according to what he told the old man 7 times. thats 7 times since October 1st more then its been hunted in 3 years and he has yet to arrow a buck, that tells me he is killin the spot. I have seen deer bed between the ladder and stand with me in it, and this dude shoots at anything that walks by so I know he done spooked everything outta there and the bruiser mega giants he isn't seeing according to him because he shootin at the smaller bucks and does. Bottom line I feel like he's a back stabbin little weasle set stealin POS the swamp is 5 x 7 miles why does he have to weasle in on my spot and be shady about it. Thats where the douche bag factor comes into play.. Sorry got fired up again