Euroarms Rogers and Spencer Q's

[Stantheman86]

The website is active, I assume with her husband passing she may take a break or just close up? That's sad, I'm sorry he passed. He threw a handful of free .451 bullets into my order because they ran out and they just threw in whatever they had laying around and partially refunded my card. They're a good source for weird parts, I hope she keeps it running.

 

[Are. M.]

So back to the topic.

The loading lever and cylinder arbor have to be carefully tapped in and out. No amount of wiggling works well with ample amounts of lube. I attached a (googled) picture highlighting the areas of friction.

What can be done to remedy this? I plan on draw filing the barrel as it is good and ribbed from factory machining. I feel like that in conjunction with removing a hairswidth of metal from the loading lever joint would help?

*image is not mine, I just drew on it a little.*

 

[hrt4me]

I don't have any clearance issues with any of mine, so I can offer no tips at this time

 

[Are. M.]

Last question. Whats the thread size and pitch for the nipples?

 

[hanshi]

When you say it was "a bit too much gun," what are you referring to? Weight or recoil? Or just plain-ol too much gun?

Like the difference between an unmentionable .45 cal made in 1911 versus a sub-compact polymer frame unmentionable in .354 cal made in 2017.

I didn't have a good holster for it and my need was for a smaller, more portable revolver. The R&S was a great one to shoot but not to lug around. Its performance is why I ended up keeping and shooting it for so long.

 

[hanshi]

I no longer have any of the guns pictured, but believe me they burned more than their share of powder. Unlike the Remington and Colts I found the R&S awkward to handle, didn't fit my hands as well as the others.

 

[Woody Morgan]

I think that one would be a Ruger old army so I’d guess that yes it does.

Looks like both target guns are Rugers.
The left has Ruger grip panels and the one on the right has the same sights and hammer shape.
Darn nice collection!

wm

 

[Artificer]

I have the opportunity to purchase a RnS revolver, but I have a couple of questions before I do. It's in pretty good condition, though the nipples are stuck good and the loading lever/cylinder rod thingy (looking for a better term here) is a little sticky. Those are both easy fixes.

What else should I be looking at before I purchase? I have Kroil for the cylinder, and a little filing on the backside of the cylinder rod/under side of barrel will help that. Barrels look good, and aside from the froze up nipples, the cylinder is clean, smooth, and the inside of the nipple is shiny.

The cam screw for the cylinder release is kind of buggered up, but the cam itself is in primo condition.

It comes with an installed progressive barrel, a regular barrel, extra grip frame, and an extra front sight.

Again, looking for a little insight as to what I need to be lookong at/for.

Thanks,
RM

We sold a LOT of R&S revolvers over the years at the North South Skirmish Association Spring and Fall National Championship shoots, plus repair parts for same and we did trigger jobs and general repair on them. If a person's hand was big enough for the grip, it was BAR NONE the MOST accurate BP revolver. I didn't shoot NSSA Revolver matches, but if I did, I DARN sure would have bought one. They really are that good!

With the progressive rifled barrel, that's a real treasure.

OK, the number one part we replaced over the years was nipples, but that's because NSSA shooters shot them a LOT. In your case, I would order a dozen of them. One set of six to replace the ones in the revolver now and the second set of six for quite some time in the future.

The second most common part we replaced were the Trigger and Bolt Springs. Personally, I'd buy two to keep as spares, as they aren't that expensive, BUT other ones made for other revolvers WON'T work.

Much less common parts to be used are in this order, BUT I would strongly advise detail stripping the revolver to see what condition the parts are in it now.

3. Hand & Spring. Personally, I'd buy one and mainly as they are drying up.

4. Trigger. Personally, I'd buy one and mainly as they are drying up and the price is far cheaper than repairing one.

Oh, I would also buy replacements for buggered up screws and ensure you install them with properly fitting screwdriver bits.

S&S Firearms has already been mentioned they are in a grievance period for the old man, but I'd call back maybe once a week, since I'm fairly certain they will stay in business.

Links to Parts Dealers:

1. Products (ssfirearms.com)

2. (Second page) Products (ssfirearms.com)

3. PARTS FOR ROGERS AND SPENCER revolvers (peterdyson.co.uk)

Personally and since I would definitely buy the parts mentioned above, I would have NO qualms about buying a used R&S revolver, should you want one.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

So back to the topic.

The loading lever and cylinder arbor have to be carefully tapped in and out. No amount of wiggling works well with ample amounts of lube. I attached a (googled) picture highlighting the areas of friction.

What can be done to remedy this? I plan on draw filing the barrel as it is good and ribbed from factory machining. I feel like that in conjunction with removing a hairswidth of metal from the loading lever joint would help?

*image is not mine, I just drew on it a little.*

Before you go filing on the loading lever, I first suggest you CLEAN it well and also the holes and area it goes into the frame. Next, ensure the loading lever is not bent, if so you can carefully bend it back or replace it. Next, ensure there are no pieces of spent caps in there and no Burrs or dings in the holes in the frame that would cause the sticking problem. If so, then take care of removing the spent cap pieces, the Burrs or Dings first. Then and only then would I would look to filing on the loading lever, if it still sticks after that.

Gus

 

[hawkeye2]

I suggest you remove the male/female screw that retains the loading lever/arbor assembly and see if it binds without that in place

 

[Are. M.]

Thanks, Gus. That's some good information. I took great care in cleaning all the orifices and despite my best efforts, the thing still stuck. I also tried Hawkeye's suggestion and that didn't work either. At first, I thought, like Gus siggested, that the arbor was bent. Upon inspection, this was not the case. It is perfectly straight, and the top of where the lever and jammer attaches to the arbor was also square. So I took maybe 3 thousandths off that flat bit and now it slides in and out with far less force. I'll put it to you like this. I was beating it with a brass hammer, and not a tiny, 3oz one. Something had to give and I didn't want it to be the loading lever.

Got to shoot it yesterday. All the lore behind the gun makes it feel waay cooler to shoot. Unfortunately it only raised more questions.

The cylinder with a ball prepped to be loaded does not rotate completely under the rammer. I can see where travel is being impeded, and I suspect nothing short of filing this area will help. Is this a correct assumption? Cause we gotta get that ball under that rammer.

Thanks again for all the information.

RM

 

[B P Arn]

No, I would not assume that at all. Put the files down , and raise your hands. Now... slowly back away from the work bench and turn out the light.

You really should bring this gun to a competent gunsmith before you wreck it.

 

[Are. M.]

According to the fine folks on this thread, it's going to take a whole lot more than a little careful filing to wreck this hoss of a pistol.

For real, though. If I doubted any of my insights or skills as a gunbuilder/tinkerer I'd have gone out and picked up one of them sto-bought revolvers. You know. The ones that work perfectly straight out of the box.

No, no. To me, every gun is a kit gun waiting to be made into something special. Some need a little TLC, some need a little more TLC, and some are fine as is. That's the beauty of black powder, IMHO.

This R&S just happens to need a little more TLC.

 

[B P Arn]

OK.

Re-reading my previous post, I came off harsher than I intended. Please forgive me.

 

[Are. M.]

OK.

Re-reading my previous post, I came off harsher than I intended. Please forgive me.

No harm, no foul.

I will have our resident gunmaker take a look at it if he's at our next shoot.

 

[hrt4me]

We sold a LOT of R&S revolvers over the years at the North South Skirmish Association Spring and Fall National Championship shoots, plus repair parts for same and we did trigger jobs and general repair on them. If a person's hand was big enough for the grip, it was BAR NONE the MOST accurate BP revolver. I didn't shoot NSSA Revolver matches, but if I did, I DARN sure would have bought one. They really are that good!

With the progressive rifled barrel, that's a real treasure.

OK, the number one part we replaced over the years was nipples, but that's because NSSA shooters shot them a LOT. In your case, I would order a dozen of them. One set of six to replace the ones in the revolver now and the second set of six for quite some time in the future.

The second most common part we replaced were the Trigger and Bolt Springs. Personally, I'd buy two to keep as spares, as they aren't that expensive, BUT other ones made for other revolvers WON'T work.

Much less common parts to be used are in this order, BUT I would strongly advise detail stripping the revolver to see what condition the parts are in it now.

3. Hand & Spring. Personally, I'd buy one and mainly as they are drying up.

4. Trigger. Personally, I'd buy one and mainly as they are drying up and the price is far cheaper than repairing one.

Oh, I would also buy replacements for buggered up screws and ensure you install them with properly fitting screwdriver bits.

S&S Firearms has already been mentioned they are in a grievance period for the old man, but I'd call back maybe once a week, since I'm fairly certain they will stay in business.

Links to Parts Dealers:

1. Products (ssfirearms.com)

2. (Second page) Products (ssfirearms.com)

3. PARTS FOR ROGERS AND SPENCER revolvers (peterdyson.co.uk)

Personally and since I would definitely buy the parts mentioned above, I would have NO qualms about buying a used R&S revolver, should you want one.

Gus

thanks for the insight and tips

 

[Artificer]

thanks for the insight and tips

You are MOST welcome.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

The cylinder with a ball prepped to be loaded does not rotate completely under the rammer. I can see where travel is being impeded, and I suspect nothing short of filing this area will help. Is this a correct assumption? Cause we gotta get that ball under that rammer.

Thanks again for all the information.

RM

Ah, I wondered if Are M. were your initials. It came to my mind because those are the initials of my first and middle names. "Gus" has been my nickname since my Mom unintentionally made it so when I was about 7 and it stuck, much to her chagrin.

Good problem solving! Yep, as little as .001" between parts can mean the difference between them sliding freely and barely able to beat it apart with a LARGE Dead Blow Hammer.

OK, this NEW problem you just related above can be caused by a couple/few things. Have you taken the parts out of the frame? (You have to ensure you remove the mainspring before you can get to the inside parts.) The reason I ask is because if not, a piece of a spent cap can cause this problem and I've seen that before.

Next, I don't think this is the problem, but it can be caused by the "Cylinder Bolt" cracked or broken on the upper portion of the small "leg." In the Following Link, this part is RS17:

PARTS LIST.XLS (euroarms.net)

Also, here's and upside down pic from S&S
Product Detail (ssfirearms.com)

Now I'm ASSUMING you mean the Cylinder is not rotating far enough to lock in place directly under the Loading Lever without you having to turn the cylinder until it locks in place?

If so, then the RS36 "Hand Assembly" in the following link is almost certainly the problem. (S&S calls this a "Hand and Spring" in their pages.) It can be the Spring shown as "a" in the illustration is worn out or broken off. Normally though, it is top tip of the "Hand," shown just a bit below and to the right of the letter "b" in the illustration that is chipped or worn down too low.
PARTS LIST.XLS (euroarms.net)

Either of these two problems can usually be solved by installing a new replacement part as shown below:
Product Detail (ssfirearms.com)

Now if the top tip of the hand is worn down, some folks will peen the top tip higher and some put it in a smooth faced vise to squeeze it so it spreads out higher. Either can work short term, but replacing the part is a much better way to go.

Gus

 

[Are. M.]

The mechanisms all work wondefully and lock in place just fine. It's ball clearance thats the issue.

See that arrow in the picture? Thats where the ball contacts the metal below the loading arm. I mash on the ball with the rammer, it pushes in a little, I rotate the ball completely under the rammer, then seat the ball on the powder. Leaves a nasty marred surface on the ball.

 

[hawkeye2]

I never had that problem with mine but it sounds like a job for a Dremel tool or some files and cold blue touchup.