EuroArms Zouave problem

[chowey]

I have a Zouave rifle from Euroarms that is making me crazy.

I purchased it several years ago - but have just recently had a chance to begin to shoot it.

I bought it so that I could join the N-SSA but can't get the thing to shoot consistently.

Here are some of the problems I've had:
1. the gun shot WAY to the left the first few times I took it out. a gunsmith moved the front sight but he ended up having to slant it considerably off the center line of the barrel to the right.

2. as a day of shooting progresses - even though I've been benching it - the first shots seem to group well - but then they start to go all over the paper - left right up and down - seems no pattern except they start to move - and not by a little - from one side of a standard 50 yd bull to the other.

Has anything like this happened to anyone out there? I haven't found anything that suggests this is usual for a Euroarms Zouave.

I'm about ready to scrap this thing.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ken.clements]

before you scrap it :shocked2: ...what are you shooting? Minie's or PB's? Powder Load? Lube? Temp. where you are shooting? How fast are you Shooting?

I have a Euroarms Zouave and have won comps. with it.
Try Lymann PH Minie 566 grain (or there abouts) pure lead, sized, weighed, lubed with Wonder Lube and 52.5 grains Swiss 2.
No swabbing between shots, more than 15 shots in 20 Minutes and they will fly around (Quality of Steel and hot barrel :idunno: ).
Let me / us know

 

[hawkeye2]

Ken has given you some real good advise and I would like to ad a little to it. First measure your bore by slugging it or take it to a machinest to do for you. They may have a set of clyndrical gauges in .001" incriments. Once you have determined the bore diameter size your minies .001" or .002" under that (no more). Lube is very important as it keeps the fouling soft and if you don't have a good lube the fouling will destroy the accuracy in just a very few shots as the riflng is quite shallow compared to a PRB barrel. If you are in doubt about lube clean after every shot till you get things sorted out. Your minies must be pure lead as anything else won't expand to grip the rifling properly. Cast your own and inspect them, NEVER buy a mini ball cast by someone else. You should be able to get the accuracy you need with between 35 and 50 grains of powder, either 2 or 3f. Experiment with both, I did and perfer 2f. In a good event you will have to fire only 2 rounds, except for the pigeon board, it takes 4, but if you and your teammates are off expect to fire as many as 10 and you may have 5 or 6 events in a skirmish. This is where lube is important re fouling as you have to load fast and accuracy can't fall off either.

Your gun may need work too such as a lock tune up, and improved sights. You are allowed to replace the front sight with a taller and wider one but it must be soldered in place after you sight in and be similar to the original. You may also modify your rear sight slightly. Consider glass bedding the barrel too. Usually the tang and 4" to 7" inches of the breech is enough but some perfer to bed full length. The middle band should be loose, that is not put any pressure on the barrel.

Even if you don't join the N-SSA, and I hope you will, get in touch with a couple of members in your area, they will be a wealth of information. BTW let us know where you are located.

 

[ken.clements]

haven't heard no nothin'
maybe its already scrapped

 

[hawkeye2]

Gezz, I hope he saved the barrel for a tomato stake. :grin:

 

[chowey]

Sorry to take a bit to get back --

It's the end of the semester in my school district and things are a bit crazy....

Thanks so much for your thoughts to date -

Here’s some more information ”“ probably more than you want:

About 7 years ago I checked out the N-SSA and really liked what I saw. My previous 15 years shooting BP were with a combination reenacting and shooting club doing mid 19th century shooting (my gun of choice in that group was a .36 cal. Poor Boy Squirrel rifle).

I met with the N-SSA group here in town (since I've misplaced the contact numbers) and one of them lent me his Mississippi Rifle - I loved it.

Couple weeks later I went and bought the rifle, uniform, etc.

I took my new gun back to the N-SSA group and none of us could hit anything with it.

I decided to get it in firing order before I went back.

At that time I was shooting what mics out as a .5755 minie with 35 grains of FF Goex.

The distance between the flats of my barrel mic out at .5775.

The guys suggested I take the gun to a friend that is a BP gunsmith (who had at one time also owned and shot a Zouave).

We tested the rifle on his range with paper targets over a bench and first noticed the pattern I mentioned in my first post. The first few rounds would group pretty well ”“ though all to the left and low ”“ then they’d start to pattern all over the target.

Over two days we tried three different charges of FF Goex powder - 35, 45 and 60 grains at 25, 50 and approx 70 yards (all loads at all ranges). Sometimes we swabbed between shots ”“ some series we didn’t ”“ no difference in patterning either way.

Not even the higher load brought impact up close to the bull.

The final result was that I ordered a new front sight from Lodgewood (their “High Front Sight) and that got soldered on ”“ but at a considerable slant, as I mentioned).

Then “real life” interfered. My job changed. I worked different hours, etc, etc.

Now ”“ seven years later I have the time ”“ but have lost all my contact info on the Indianapolis, Indiana N-SSA group. I don’t even know if they’re still around ”“ or if they are ”“ where they’re shooting.

When I started shooting the Zouave again recently I now have the High Front sight attached ”“ so my elevation isn’t even a concern at the moment ”“ the consistency of impact is still all over the place, though.

During the shooting that was done seven years ago I was using minie balls I got from my friend the gunsmith that were .5755. He lubed them ”“ but I’m not sure with what after all this time.

I’m lubing what I shoot now with Crisco ”“ both around the grooves and in the base.

Over about 6 sessions of shooting I’ve gone through about 100 of the .5755 minies and about 25 of a new .5765 minie that I’ve been casting myself using a Lyman mold.

Most recent session was using 60 grains of FF Goex. Session before that I tried (just for giggles) 40 grains of FFF Goex.

All the bullets were made using pure, soft lead. I’m not sure of the weight of either of the bullets.

I hope this puts things in better order for of you.

Thanks a lot ”“

Chris

 

[pargent]

I to have an old zouave , it has a 1 in 33 twist barrel and is not a good shooter .i did find that using longer heavier minnies improved things :idunno:

 

[Klaus]

Hello All,

i have got a Euroarms Zouave since a lot of years and it`s a real nice Rifle,with a fine tuned lock.Barrel are bedeed and the gap between Look and Barrel is wide enought to avoid any contact if the Barrel heated up after a large string of shoots but i`m unable to bring good precision on the target.
Groovediameter.581.
i attempted with soft lead bullets from a PH Mould,the original Lyman Bullet,patched to .580 and unpatched,Leemoulds etc.but all efford without real success.Bulletlube i used are selfemade and commercial ( Lube 103).
Powdercharges between 40 and 70 grs WANO Nr.1 or Swiss Nr.4 and 2 ( 1.5F and FFFG).The first shoot from a clean barrel mostly not on the Target.the second,third,fourth shoot on Target.Remaining time between shoots are 2-3 Minutes due to loading procedure and art of prone position.( we shoot from a wooden lounger)So it`s time enought i think to cool down for the barrel.But groups open up and spread over the Paper after the 8th or 9th shoot.
So i`m at the end of my way decided to sell my Zouave,but it is hard because i like this Rifle and i like the fabulous triggerwork by around 500 gramms triggerpull the Hammer will released :wink: but it performs so bad.I ogle with a 1842 Mississippi Rifle to use a RB but it`s too expensive to buy opposide for the Money i could get for my Zouave.MHH :hmm:
After a time of depression a friend of mine lent me a Rapine Mould wich produce a.581 Bullet with a deep pointed cavity.First tests on the range promised good results and i will going on with it.Also i decide to try Roundballs .562,570,575 for the 50m distance.

May someone will share his experiences or further results about his own steps to bring the Zouave to be a Tack Driver :grin: is highly welcome.

Regards Klaus

regards from Germany

Klaus :wink:

 

[bob308]

it may not be the barrel. i find you have to glassbed the tang. clean out the stock where it touches the barrel so there is no pressuer on the barrel and the bands a lose.

 

[hanshi]

I've owned and shot both their Zouave and Mississippi rifles - the Miss rifle is a .54 - extensively. Of the two the Mississippi was by far the most accurate bordering on phenomenal. Neither did well with conicals or minie but tightened up with prb. I still have the Mississippi and it's one of my favorite rifles.

From what I was able to learn from the experience a heavy and slightly tighter minie is the best bet for accuracy if you don't intend using prb. The prb allowed me to take squirrels with the Zouave.

 

[59sharps]

Go to the N-SSA main Site go check the regional link for your area. Or just post on there BB. Some one will contact you.
Did you try a new nipple? check the breach for a blown skirt? When you clean it are patchs sticking in the bore tight spots?

 

[Big John]

Had a Zouave that did the same...Here's what I did,raised the factory sight, micro-ed the lands and shot the Hodgedon or (blue/grey) bullet sized to .002 under land size, use 42gr. of 3f goex with german musket caps. Great shooter at 50 and 100yds offhand.Lubed with 50% bees wax and 50% crisco.

 

[chowey]

sounds like we had a lot of the same experiences.

I'll see what else I can find in minie molds - but I may also try round balls.

Thanks much.

 

[chowey]

interesting idea - I've bedded my squirrel rifle - but didn't think about trying it with the Zouave - I think I will. It certainly can't make it perform worse than it is now.

Thanks.

 

[chowey]

I took your suggestion about the N-SSA site - I'm getting help there, too.

I don't think it's the breech - no problems with fouling building there or difficulty in cleaning. No patches ever snag. In fact the gun cleans terrifically well.

Nipples also seem to be doing OK. Nothing blown there.

Thanks for the N-SSA idea.

 

[chowey]

was it the front or rear sight you raised? Do you think my now using the higher front sight will have the same effect?
I think the N-SSA frowns on too much sight modification and I really would like to shoot with them some day.

Thanks.

 

[chowey]

I think I'll try the prb just to see if I can shoot this rifle accurately - I really like the feel and hold of the gun. I'm not sure if I could use anything else but minies with the N-SSA but .... maybe I'd have to get a different rifle :wink:

 

[Big John]

the front sight needed to be raised, a very common problem with repro rifles. I shoot alot with three members of the n-ssa. The issue with sights for the n-ssa is to have as issued or comparable sights, not how high they are. Also the 42gr of 3f is the standard load for reduced powder charge for hodgedon minnie bullets, this to save powder while shooting paper and clay targets.

 

[ken.clements]

good mornin'...please read slowly as I can only type with a "Hunt and Pick" methode and it takes time :grin: Not that you guys read faster than I can type :wink:
here are some tips:
Take your Rifle to a maschine shop and have a piece turned (round stock) that fits (without force) very tightly in the barrel. With very tightly I mean it will slide slowly down the barrel without help, no force, but it is so tightly turned that the air pressure building up as it slides down almost stops it (don't forget to open the Hammer when you do this). End result is: you now have a Barrel Sizer that wasn't measured with two or three different measuring instraments...very important!
Now have a piece of flat stock (about 1 inch thick) drilled to the exact size minus .001 of your round stock (your new Bullet Sizer above).The bullet sizer should not be able to go through the flat stock because there is a .001 difference (the flat stock being smaller than the round stock).
The reasoning behind this is simple...you are shooting hand made Minie's that are different sizes....if you don't believe me, try it first and I will definitly hear "well I'll be Dam&%$"!
Every Rifle gets one of each above mentioned "Sizers". The Minie's should have to pushed through the flat stock (lightly oil it first), those that fall through are too small...back into the melting pot!
Next...all Minie's have to be visually inspected and weighed. You think there is no difference in the weights? 10 - 15 Grains per 100 pieces, I'll bet with you. You want 15 the same weight and sized. The 15 can all have for example 566 Grains or 580 Grains but all 15 the same. You want at least 3 sets of Minie's the next time you go to the Range.
Now Powder...pre measured (because it takes time), I personaly weigh it, others use volume. Pre-measured in sets of 6 (I realize the Minie's don't match the powder sets, don't matter none :wink: ). I would suggest 50 grains Swiss 2, every set of 6 going up 2 Grains up to 60 Grains.Swiss has different screen sizes, more umpfh in the Load.
Lube: I use Wonder Lube. Put on the Minie's with my thumb or finger, none in the cavity (too soft anyway), fat rings full, no excess. Yes it's messy and it takes time.
At the Range:Comfortable seated BENCH REST shooting. Who cares what the "wanna be" Rambo's say. We are trying for accuracy. Barrel on Sandbags, hold it tight there, Stock tight in the shoulder, good sight picture, watch your breathing, slowly squeeze the trigger. The shot itself should suprise you.
The first shot ends up who knows where. Thats ok, the second should be right on the money...maybe not on the Bull, but somewhere on the paper. Four more shots with the same weight Minie's, same Powder load, same sight picture...don't change a darn thing!!
After you have shot 5 or six times, wipe the barrel with a rag or whatever...don't clean it, just get the biggest junk out.
Try again with a different load....
After shooting 3 or more different loads you will see that your grouping is with one or two better than the others...work your Minie's and your powder laod inside the parameters of your two best results.
You should have a good shooter inside of two trips to the range.
And before someone crys "I'm not dumb, I've been shooting for "X" years, I'm insulted" ....this is just what I did. And yes all this takes time...but as long as you doing something written above, you don't have to do anything else because only women are "multi-tasking" :haha:

the sizer and weighing will make the difference between a "tomato stake" and a shooter, believe me

 

[59sharps]

IF none Of the N-SSA guys you contact in your area have a hodgens bullet for you to try let me know what size (I can do several sizes .576, 578 &.580. I will mail you 2 doz or so to work w/ DO NOT BUY a mold until you find something that works. Now for the size you need. you know you need .001 to .002 2 under. Easiest way to do and this was told to me by the guy that made me a sizer for my luber sizer.Take a over sized minne start it in the barrel w/ enough left out to get a pair of pliers on it, turn the minni 1/4 turn do this to 2 or 3 minnies. then mic them. .001 to .002 under that is what you will need.