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Exceptional Colonial American Period Flintlock Ketland & Co.Trade Gun

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You do realize that removing patina from anything antique, or “refinishing” it, will just about ruin its value?
Looks like it’s been so much altered already, that maybe it doesn’t matter any longer. Worth asking an expert though.
 
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You do realize that removing patina from anything antique, or “refinishing” it, will just about ruin its value?
Looks like it’s been so much altered already, that maybe it doesn’t matter any longer. Worth asking an expert though.
I was not worried about patina. The gun had been "worked on" in the past. Now it is about preserving what is left. I do not see it having any real or special value at this point. It is more of a family keepsake. It did start life as a flintlock I believe and was later converted to percussion.
 
I was not worried about patina. The gun had been "worked on" in the past. Now it is about preserving what is left. I do not see it having any real or special value at this point. It is more of a family keepsake. It did start life as a flintlock I believe and was later converted to percussion.
Well good luck on your clean-up work. (I would be sad to see the lovely patina disappear on an old gun.)
 
I really do appreciate your concern. Sadly the patina was long gone before I got the gun. My Dad passed it to me and it was rough when he got it. He had no idea what it was other then a possible old fowler. He knew that I was attracted to its history back in the early 70's. Whatever the finish was it had long been "fixed" by somoene that had good intentions I am sure. Now I have to figure out how to preserve it from future decay. My oldest boy wants it after my demise. :ghostly:
 
Thank you Rudyard.
I will get to posting pictures. I did take steel wool to the barrel to clean it up a bit it has a lot of surface rust from not being cared for in the past. I need to figure out what to do to the barrel to preserve it from future rust. I know this gun was built in Birlmingham London UK by Thomas Ketland before his son took over the business and started imporing through Philadelphia I believe it was. The rest is a hot mess of what I actually have. I will fload up a bunch of puictures for your review.
Dear Jennakins . Well the normal way to prevent rusting was to cause controlled rusting its called' Browning' the Birmingham proof mark is post 1814 consistent with the Ketland & Co I cant see the rear end of the lock but if its rounded its late What is curious is the apparent guilding or worn off Lacker and why the wrist Escution appears well above the stock surface when it should be flush The stock surface allmost appears to be sanded down at some point Lucky its survived at all .The lock looks very grey like its seen naval jelly at some point. .Still there's hope it can be mellowed down .On the underside of the barrel should be ' loops 'either slotted or just a round hole where the fore end would have been once. Wow! Well we made some discoveries Bailey & Nie gives Ketland Wiliam1802 -1807 & Co 1808-1831 gun & pistol makers Steelhouse Lane & Whittall St Birmingham . Which incidently is about 90 miles from London. Again curiously old fashioned but again they made what the customer ordered & we cant get round the Proof house dates ,That Proof house is still going I used it a lot as all guns I made or' got up' Had to be sent to proof ,The London House is a shambles just does a few high end & a few odditys While Birmingham are a proper proof house And the staff capable people who do as you ask them too no silly" Black powder only" type rubbish in view , all that goes under neath just the 'Mark' being visable at least for Mls The 'gubbins' was on the tubes & action Flats on more modern BLs (Never catch on !) trust that helps .
Regards Rudyard
 
Dear Jennakins . Well the normal way to prevent rusting was to cause controlled rusting its called' Browning' the Birmingham proof mark is post 1814 consistent with the Ketland & Co I cant see the rear end of the lock but if its rounded its late What is curious is the apparent guilding or worn off Lacker and why the wrist Escution appears well above the stock surface when it should be flush The stock surface allmost appears to be sanded down at some point Lucky its survived at all .The lock looks very grey like its seen naval jelly at some point. .Still there's hope it can be mellowed down .On the underside of the barrel should be ' loops 'either slotted or just a round hole where the fore end would have been once. Wow! Well we made some discoveries Bailey & Nie gives Ketland Wiliam1802 -1807 & Co 1808-1831 gun & pistol makers Steelhouse Lane & Whittall St Birmingham . Which incidently is about 90 miles from London. Again curiously old fashioned but again they made what the customer ordered & we cant get round the Proof house dates ,That Proof house is still going I used it a lot as all guns I made or' got up' Had to be sent to proof ,The London House is a shambles just does a few high end & a few odditys While Birmingham are a proper proof house And the staff capable people who do as you ask them too no silly" Black powder only" type rubbish in view , all that goes under neath just the 'Mark' being visable at least for Mls The 'gubbins' was on the tubes & action Flats on more modern BLs (Never catch on !) trust that helps .
Regards Rudyard
Thank you,, There is a slot under the barrel. The end is rounded also. I will post some more pics of what you mentioned. How could browning be done in a controled manner? I would love to have the forearm replaced but I do not know if that is possible.
 

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Thank you,, There is a slot under the barrel. The end is rounded also. I will post some more pics of what you mentioned. How could browning be done in a controled manner? I would love to have the forearm replaced but I do not know if that is possible.
Dear Jennakins. Hmm its not clear quite what that supposed 'loop 'is from that angle try side ways on .may I suggest . Re Browning I use a drop of spirits of salts as in Solder flux but only a drop in soft water you need ensure the present bright colour is free of oil like finger prints . leave it in a quite damp corner it should darken as you keep coating the mild water mix keep doing that till it looks even dark all over ( I plug the muzzle with a taper stick to handle it by ,don.t let the mix get into the vent/ Nipple area or in the bore . that usually works for me but ime used to it & steel & Iron in your case can vary . . the finnish you seek isnt rough rather it be smooth ,the rusting is IN the barrel surface rather than On it . .Re a new fore end well that might be made shortened in its life but some clever artisan can Scarfe a new fore end & hopefully match the existing colour its most likely originally walnut getting a bit might be a trick to match In a nutshell it needs a capable person who will have to match the other probably two other ramrod' Pipes' many wrongly call thimbles if you run a cleaning rod down the bore & hopefully there are no bunglers loops going into the bore it might be rude to say its been' Bubber'd' but it might be accurate!. Ime too far away to do any work but there are some good restorers like David Person who posts here . Felt Wad is good but he s in the UK and getting guns overseas & back these days is a Bain . The hammer seems to be on half cock perhaps its all fine internally doesn't look bad . I knew a raft of good gunmakers in the US but I've been 23 years out of touch married with children does that, No more emulating the geese for endless summers .I see Brad Emig mentioned below he..s a capable fellow or you might go see Dixons Fair its near Kempton PA last weekend of June useually there will be lots of gunmakers their see what they reckon . Pics are allways a good guide ,Oh once the once bright barrel is an even pleasant brown pour boiling water all over then as it dries oil it,
Regards Rudyard
 
Sooo, I got the gun apart. Browning is still visable on barrel above the stock. Interesting markings on bottom of barrel number 18 and through the rough filings what appears to be is 38 or 36. So maybe that makes sense with the proofing marks and age of gun. I am working on getting contacts to period correct place the front walnut piece under the barrel, retainer and the ram rod bits. The hammer portion has lots of clam shell fillets oir feathers. Really neat stuff

Jenna
 

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Sooo, I got the gun apart. Browning is still visable on barrel above the stock. Interesting markings on bottom of barrel number 18 and through the rough filings what appears to be is 38 or 36. So maybe that makes sense with the proofing marks and age of gun. I am working on getting contacts to period correct place the front walnut piece under the barrel, retainer and the ram rod bits. The hammer portion has lots of clam shell fillets oir feathers. Really neat stuff

Jenna
Dear Jenna .The 18 is probably the bore size I E 18 to the pound smaller than a 16 bore the 36 no idea probably an 'n house' artizans tally mark just a guess. By 'bore' in the US they call it 'gauge .'same difference so many to the pound weight .The Hammer seems nicely engraved its the usual side plug conversion' Drum & Nipple' we call it . What it would cost no idea .As a historic piece it is much degraded but as an hierloom this is up to you of course . just in case if you get a long dowel rod & put in down the barrel you will discern if there is an old load but other rubbish gets pushed down barrels paper ect with no clear view of the loops ime guessing but much damage can be caused by careless Bubba s.. Thats for sure! as I know to my chagrin. & musket can go through an entire campien ,But give it some kindy kids in a playground and its wrecked in minets !.
Regards Rudyard
 
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