Experience / Opinions on Cabela's double shotguns?

[tamara]

I am interested in purchasing my first muzzleloader, and I would like a double shotgun. I intend to use it for hunting quail, rabbits, chukar, occasionally grouse and ducks. I'm leaning toward a 20ga.

Cabela's carries doubles made by Pedersoli in 10, 12, and 20ga. They use #11 percussion caps and look period to me (although I know quite little about what is period). Yet they have chromed barrels for steel shot and the 10 and 12 have interchangable chokes. The 20 has fixed chokes, IC and modified.

Does anyone have experience with any of these guns? The 20ga is the cheapest, and runs $550.
That seems expensive to me, but I don't really know what a reasonable price for a decent double is.

I've generally heard good things about Pedersoli, but since these are a "Cabela's exclusive," does anyone know if they are the same quality? I've seen what appears to be the same guns on[url] dixiegunworks.com[/url], for $25 more.

Since I'm new to muzzleloading, is it worth it to spend the extra money and get something new and under warranty, rather than get a used one that I might not be able to tell if anything is wrong with it?

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I have one of the Pedersoli 20 gauge guns from Cabela's, and I am pleased with it. The only nit I have to pick is that the triggers are not the same weight of pull. Actually, I think this is done as a safety thing, but I'm not sure. It is a well made, good looking shotgun, and I don't think you will be disappointed. $550 seems like a good price, I think I paid more than that for mine several years ago.

Good luck!

 

[colt100]

If you are even thinking of hunting ducks with it, do with the 12 ga. I have a 12 ga from cabela's and I love it. I don;t seem to have the problems with different trigger pulls.

I looked into hunting with steel shot and basically decided that I'll use bismuth as it doesn;t reuire a plastic shot cup and won;t hurt the barrels.

With the 12 ga, you can always down load the powder charge if your huning rabbits of small game to have about the same performance. If you get the 20 ga, you're never going to be able to up the charge when you want to hunt ducks, geese, or phesents.

Just something to think about.

 

Or.... you could get one of each. :grin:
Don

 

Howdy Tamara
I would go with the double 12 from Navy. I have one and every body who has tried it out loves it. You can load down a 12, so the kick ain't bad. Hell I load mine down for the ladies I know who shoot. You can use 12 for every thing Bear, deer, and all birds... try a 12... It's better to have more when you need it, than not enough when you need more... My best regards Loyalist Dawg
Long live the KING!!!

 

[Leonredbeard]

Scattershot,
I had a CVA 12 gauge a while back. Because the left trigge is farther back on the gun it has much more leverage on its sear than the right one does. It is a simple matter of physics. The manufacturer would have to compensate with a heavier spring on the left trigger to give you even strength of pull.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[tamara]

Thanks for the information and advice, everyone.

Where can I find information about Navy shotguns? I looked at[url] navyarms.com[/url], but I don't see any shotguns on their site.

Maybe the 12 gauge would be better, because I would like to hunt ducks (and maybe even geese) when the opportunity arises (unfortunately, it doesn't come up that much though). I'd buy one of each if I had the money.

The down-loading is something I hadn't thought about, but seems like a real advantage of muzzleloading. Normally, I think of 12ga + quail = SPLAT! :winking:

 

[Runner]

A 60 grain load with a 90 grain measure of shot gives me a good pattern and a pleasant load to shoot. 60-60 opens the pattern up a lot so you don't blow things up. I load about 50 70 for rabbits while squirrels get the 60 90 load. Turkeys get 90-120 of number sixes. That load is no fun to shoot, but the turkeys don't like it all the way out to 40 yards. Whichever one you buy, get ready to spend some time shooting it to find the right combinations. I still do not have the steel loads fully worked out, but I will work on it some more as soon as the weather and this cold allows. Supposedly, the Bismuth shot shoots the same as the lead, so you don't have to work up steel loads if you are willing to buy the expensive Bismuth. So far I have resisted buying 7 pounds of shot for 70$ plus shipping. Pattern work with the steel is fun anyway.

 

[BillinOregon]

I have had all three gauges of Pedersoli ML doubles, and the 20 was not only the most pleasant to shoot, it also gave me some of the best patterns, at least with lead. Don't know why, but the 10 gauge really smacked my cheekbone, even with charges equivalent to those used in a 12.
Anyway, the 20 with its fixed chokes is closer to an original than either of the screw-in choked models, and the latter have thicker barrels at the muzzle to accommodate the choke threads. This, in my opinion, takes some of the sweetness out of the way they should handle, because of that excess steel out front.
Of the three, I would go with a 20 again, and use bismuth for waterfowl.

 

[ffffg]

i think you can return a problem gun to cabellas if it is not right. make sure you can.. whatever you buy , check out the patterns with the same load in each barrel and make sure they are within three inches of center at 40 yards.. that is the standard i go by..a little more could be acceptable, if it ok with you... .. pedersolli has had lots of problems with patterns not being on. some are on some arnt. if you get a good one, a gunsmith can do the triggers.. they have screws that arnt fixed and after having my tiggers done about three times i figgured out that one side tended to loosen and the other side tended to tighten as they are reversed locks.. you should be able to adjust pull to some degree by tensioning the screws on the locks.. maybe they have changed them as my pedersoli 10 ga is 10-15 years old.. the triggers gave me problems, the barrels dont shoot on, and the first time i went hunting only one lock would work brand new.. sxs throw out a ton of bismuth and that can run into some bucks in a heavy season. with all the problems i managed to kill dozzens of ducks and two geese, and win two black powder state championships.. so pedersoli is a mixed bag for me, .. rather than getting negative about pedersoli id recomend a good quality or semi custom smoothbore (single shot) longstock in 20,16,12 guage. .. but if the barrels are good there is nothing wrong with a sxs.. there is that confusing enough???? :shocked2:
ps,, you can get arround barrels that are not on somewhat by putting a full choke tube in the left barrel and sighting it in with a center bead at 40 yards, and putting a improved cylinder choke tube in the right barrel so they both cover at 40 yards.. no i ussually dont sight when close in quick shooting, so the stock needs to be modified so it shoots on with the full choke in this instance when cheek is correctly on the stock.. dave..

 

[rudy parnell]

Ibid...Ditto... Idd go with a smoothbore in 16 ga. :winking:

 

[tamara]

Again, thank you all for your advice and opinions. I think I will go with the Pedersoli double 12. The 20 is still tempting, and perhaps if I like the 12, I will get the 20 down the road. I'm completely new to muzzleloading; this would be my first muzzleloader. I don't necessarily want something cheap and crappy that I'm not going to enjoy, but I don't want to spend a silly amount of money either. Most of you seem to find the Pedersoli acceptable, if not rather pleasing.

I did call Cabela's, and they told me that they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. They said I can go shoot the gun and try it out, and as long as there is no evidence of excessive use, they will return 100% of my money if I am not satisfied. Seems pretty good to me.

This is exciting!

 

[44-henry]

I've owned both the 10 and 12 guage Cabelas shotguns, I've also owned a Navy Arms 12 guage which I don't think is manufactured any longer. Like has already been said the 10 guage with it's full 110 grain 1 1/2 oz charge is hard on the cheekbone, I got rid of it after a couple goose seasons up here in North Dakota, I did shoot a lot of geese with it though.

I started out with the Navy Arms 12 guage and it worked well, though it, like the 20 guage you talk about, is fixed choke and tough to use steel shot in. The 12 guage is a good gun because it does allow you to safely use this type of shot if you choose to, it's light enough to carry and handles very nicely. I've shot geese with it, but the 10 is superior for this task, it works very well on ducks though. I think the 20 guage would be a tad light, but it would also work ok over decoys I'm thinking. I just bought an original 14 guage English shotgun that I plan on taking out, though that is totally a bismuth proposition.

 

[BillinOregon]

Alexander: Any chance of seeing a photo of your 14? Sounds utterly lovely. Twist barrels or fluid steel?

 

[tamara]

I would like to see pictures too. I'm very interested in the Original English guns as well.

I found some various other makes of double shotguns on[url] JoeSalter.com[/url]. Does anyone have experience buying guns from this website? I'm still leaning toward the Cabela's DP, but now that I've actually found some of the other models, I might hold off a bit and investigate more.

 

[Rebel]

I have a Navy Arms double barrel .12 ga that i have had for years. It has cylinder bore barrels. I have used it a lot on doves, quail, ducks, geese, jackrabbits, and cottontails. It has never given me any trouble. I used steel shot in it for ducks and geese with the heavy plastic steel shotcups. Works fine. You might check around for one of them. They are a good gun, mine is made by Pietta, and i think they cost less than the Pedersoli's. It also shoots real well with a .690 patched round ball.

 

[tamara]

Well, I decided to go with the Pedersoli, and it arrived yesterday. It came with a sparse little instruction manual. It also came with a video tape titled "A Future Out of The Past," but the tape is apparently blank. :hmm:

Anyway, two questions:
Are the barrels designed to be removed for cleaning, and if so, how do you remove them? I thought I read some where on the internet that they were removable, but after looking at the gun, I don't think they are.

Second, the instruction manual states that you should never cap both nipples at the same time. That you should shoot one, then cap the other, then shoot the other barrel. I know I should probably follow the manual, but this is very disappointing to me. The entire reason I wanted a double is so that if I missed the first shot, I could immediately fire another. Opinions?

 

[jdixon]

I have one of these in the 10 ga. I went with the largest size to give me the most versatility and since I was primarily using it for hunting turkey. Good rule of thumb - the muzzleloading shotgun of a given gauge will probably be on par in performance with a modern shotgun of the next gauge lower using standard size ammunition (i.e. 10 ga MZ = 12 ga. modern, 12 ga. MZ = 16 ga. modern ect.)

That video you mentioned is just a business pitch from Pedersoli giving you a tour of their manufacturing operations and showing some of their products. If it is blank you are not missing anything.

Unless they have changed the design, this gun has a hooked breech barrel system held in place with a single barrel wedge or key. Knock that wedge out (located in the forearm of the stock) and the barrels should lift up and out in one piece. As for capping both barrels - their recommendation of not doing this is for safety purposes. It is possible - though I have never had it happen, that the charge in one barrel could be strong enough to jump the hammer on the other side out of half-cock hitting the cap and causing that barrel to go off at almost the same time. Though this is not likely to hurt the gun, it will leave you seeing stars! A double barrel muzzleloader is a different animal to get use to and it is best to follow their advice until such time you are completely familiar with the operation of the firearm. Once you become familiar enough with the double barrel design, and I suggest only then, yes you can cap both barrels, leaving one on half-cock while shooting the other. Until you reach that level of proficiency I would say just cap one at a time. Get use to which trigger runs which barrel. Never fire one barrel, reload it while the other one is capped and pointed at your body and/or hand while loading. Be careful not to load a double charge in one barrel (easy to do!) mark your ram rod for proper load depth and check before firing. Get a system down that you always follow to avoid mistakes. You are going to have to spend a lot of time at the pattern board getting your load right - by the time you have a load figured out that gives you a good pattern (I have had mine for several years and I am still working on this aspect) you will be confident enough with the side X side design to cap both barrels in the blind, while sitting at the turkey ambush or walking the woods for grouse.

 

[tamara]

Thank you very much for the reply, JR. It indeed has what I suppose is a wedge or a key in the forearm. It looks like a sort of flat brass pin. I guess I will have to fiddle with it some more.

Regarding capping both nipples, you are quite right that I ought to take my time and get comfortable with shooting it first. Thank you for reminding me that safety is the absolute most important part. I'm satisfied that eventually, after working up loads, patterning, and practicing, that it may be reasonable to cap both nipples.

Our hunting seasons are nearly over here, and I will have all spring and summer to start figuring it out.

As for the video, that is disappointing. I wish they would have put their efforts into an instructional video instead of marketing garbage. Maybe experienced shooters wouldn't care, but they probably wouldn't care about the marketing stuff either, having the experience to carefully choose a firearm. We newbies would certainly have appreciated it though, and a good instructional video I think would do far more for the esteem of the company than a video tour of their plant.

Ok, anyway, off my soap box.

Thank you again.

 

[jdixon]

There is a lot of good information on shotguns in previous posts on the smoothbore discussion board, search those out for more information. The National Muzzleloading Rifle Association has some literature that I have seen on MZ shotguns. Additionally, the Lyman Black Powder Handbook has a section on MZ shotgunning, Hodgen's ballistic handbooks - at least the older one that I have, has a section on MZ shotguns and another book - The Complete Blackpowder Hunting Guide (or something close to that name) has a good section on this suject as well. There is stuff on the web as well - see[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/shotgun.html http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloader_shotguns.htm http://www.barrettwebs.com/ibha/shotguns.htm[/url]
Some of these articles discuss the volume:volume measure of powder and shot method - that is a very good starting point to look closely at.

If you need a source for wads - check Dixie Gun Works or a company called Circle Fly on the web, they sell what you will need, there are others as well but, those two I am certain of. If you don't already know you will initially need; hard "over powder" cards, some kind of cushion wad - I like the thinner felt ones soaked in Bore Butter, and finally, thin "over shot" cards. These usually come in lots of 100/500 or 1000. I would go with the smaller amounts first until you find out what combination of wads and cards works best for you. My opinion, stay away from using the plastic shot cups, at least until you find that the card/wad column loads don't work. I have tried these, don't like them, they usually are too small as they were designed to fit inside of a shell hull (modern ammo) that is of the correct diameter. Also, don't care for all of the plastic laying around my range or my hunting spots. Let us know how it goes.