Exporting a Reproduction Muzzleloader from the US

[Damon]

Hi all,
does anyone here know the riules on exporting a reproduction muzzleloader from the US? If I get chance to go to the US later this year from Ausralia would I be able to bring back a muzzleloader or does it require an export licence?

What about parts such as locks, stocks and barrels?

Thanks,
Damon

 

[kbuck]

Before I shipped a 22 caliber rifle to my daughter in Luxembourg, she had to go through the steps necessary to possess the gun there. I was granted a permit by the Luxembourgish government to ship it, and I don't recall having to do anything from my position. Australia? You would need to check with your government about bringing one in. Your security check at your U.S. departing airport will go smoothly or not, depending on the savvy of the DHS agent. Most probably don't know the difference between a .50 flintlock and a .50 Barrett, although some do. Just don't try to bring black powder or caps through an airport!

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
I can't speak of Australia's import laws.
But Canada's laws are getting tougher each day.
However sending the lock and trigger by mail, makes bringing the item back easier.
It is only parts then.
Old Ford

 

[Damon]

I have a fairly good idea what is need on the Australian end, it is more the US export laws as they seem to have tightened up in the last few years.

 

[Paul R]

If it's a flintlock, I don't believe you will have any problem with export laws, as it is not considered a real gun by US laws.
In Canada, under the soon to be defunct (I hope)gun registration laws, flintlocks are not registered and no license is required to purchase one. According to the Chief Firearms Inspector I spoke with, the only restriction on importing gun parts into Canada is that receivers for automatic weapons are restricted. All other parts, traditional and modern, are OK. I have only brought ML parts in from the US, and have had no problems from the US. Modern parts may run into some problems with US export restrictions. I would expect mail order dealers could give you fully accurate information, as they have to be compliant to stay in business.
Paul

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

I think it really depends on which country you live in... Over here in Belgium gunlaws are a real PITA.. I made an order to TOW in december, with some flints, ballistol, a punch for wadding, a flintlock rifle slip on gun sling and a short starter (in all some 150 $) ... Allthough I ordered some of these things before, I suddenly am strugling to get the order in because TOW used two customs codes which refer to gun parts. Specific for the gun sling and the short starter... The last 10 weeks I had to produce a sport shooting license, a gun owner license, and suddenly an import license for gun parts... Every two weeks another demand...Allthough the US goods are relatively cheap, I will think twice to order again because of all the trouble customs do give me... :surrender: :idunno:

 

[David W.]

TOW used two customs codes which refer to gun parts. Specific for the gun sling and the short starter.

Slings and short starters are accessories, not gun parts. I don't understand why TOW shipped them as parts.

 

[matt denison]

I have a fairly good idea what is need on the Australian end, it is more the US export laws as they seem to have tightened up in the last few years.

I have shipped several flintlock trade guns to Australia. If you have everything together on the Australian end then it is simple to use the U.S. Mail to send the gun back to yourself. Only one form needed which is supplied by the Post Office, no trick questions. Put it in a box with the address on it, fill out the form, mail it, simple and suprisingly inexpensive.

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

I'm afraid they where a bit sloppy and just gave a code that covered a lot of gun parts,some general descriptive code, of which they did not realise it would lead to some severe problems on this side of the pond. I can understand that sinve in the US gun laws are not so restrictive, especially for aoutrements and such. I will write them a letter though to point out the difficulties this can cause in foreign countries, in the hope they will be a bit more carefull with this, and not just smack any code onto their papers...

 

[rafterob]

If you purchase it here and then you ship it back to yourself, you are not exporting it. That applies to commercial sales houses. If you purcased it here and asked them to ship it to you, that is exporting. So as long as you're good on your end, I would see no problems here.

 

[Captain outwater]

Legally, exporting something is buying it in a foreign country, then sending it to another. If you bring personal property into the USA and back to Australia, you need only have them legally in each country.

US laws do not recognize muzzleloading firearms as firearms...but some states do! Don't travel thru those states, even thru their airports... bad things can happen if you have to deplane in NY or NJ, among others.
Other than that, you should have no problem getting it back.

 

[TFoley]

Hi all,
does anyone here know the riules on exporting a reproduction muzzleloader from the US? If I get chance to go to the US later this year from Ausralia would I be able to bring back a muzzleloader or does it require an export licence?

What about parts such as locks, stocks and barrels?

Thanks,
Damon

Please read - http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/ImportingCatA-BFirearms.pdf

The parts you mention, in particular the lock, is deemed to be a Category A or B firearm in its own right, and therefroe requires documentation and certification on Form B709A like a fully complete muzzleloader.

Remember that Australia is one of the few countries on the planet that classes a wooden gunstock part for a seventy-five year old Lee-Enfield as a fully functioning firearm, subject to export prohibition.

tac

 

[Rifleman1776]

Hi all,
does anyone here know the riules on exporting a reproduction muzzleloader from the US? If I get chance to go to the US later this year from Ausralia would I be able to bring back a muzzleloader or does it require an export licence?

What about parts such as locks, stocks and barrels?

I have sent and traded, non-gun related, items with Australians several times. At one time I belonged to an Australian woodworkers forum. From my experience and what others have said, I believe that Australian authorities open and inspect absolutely every package that comes into the country. Australia is one of the most difficult countries to deal with in terms of sending or receiving mail from. Canada is not far behind. I would try to send yourself the repro gun in separate mailings as parts and (try to) use terminology that does not say "gun" or "rifle" or "firearm", etc. For example, I once bougth an antique barrel from a gunsmith in England. He labeled it as "iron tube" and it came without a hitch. Note, it was not breeched. That was done here later. Good luck.
Thanks,
Damon

 

[TFoley]

Hi all,
does anyone here know the riules on exporting a reproduction muzzleloader from the US? If I get chance to go to the US later this year from Ausralia would I be able to bring back a muzzleloader or does it require an export licence?

What about parts such as locks, stocks and barrels?

I have sent and traded, non-gun related, items with Australians several times. At one time I belonged to an Australian woodworkers forum. From my experience and what others have said, I believe that Australian authorities open and inspect absolutely every package that comes into the country. Australia is one of the most difficult countries to deal with in terms of sending or receiving mail from. Canada is not far behind. I would try to send yourself the repro gun in separate mailings as parts and (try to) use terminology that does not say "gun" or "rifle" or "firearm", etc. For example, I once bougth an antique barrel from a gunsmith in England. He labeled it as "iron tube" and it came without a hitch. Note, it was not breeched. That was done here later. Good luck.
Thanks,
Damon

Sir - please do not incite the OP to break the law, however well-meaning you are.

An 'iron tube' with rifling down it is plainly a rifle barrel, and regardless of your opinion of Australian customs and Excise agents, they are not stupid.

Trust me, it WILL be seized on inspection, and the addressee WILL get a visit from some unfriendly representatives of the Law for attempting to smuggle constituent parts of a firearm into the country without a licence to do so.

@OP - You might think that I'm over-reacting. If so, please try it and see what happens. But you HAVE been warned, even if you subsequently ignore me.

tac

 

[Rifleman1776]

do not incite the OP to break the law, however well-meaning you are.

That is an accusation I resent. The gunsmith in question well knew the law and he operated within the bounds of the law(s) English and American.
And, FWIW, the barrel is a smoothbore.
I am presenting information on which the OP may, or may not, choose to act. His choice.

 

[TFoley]

do not incite the OP to break the law, however well-meaning you are.

That is an accusation I resent. The gunsmith in question well knew the law and he operated within the bounds of the law(s) English and American.
And, FWIW, the barrel is a smoothbore.
I am presenting information on which the OP may, or may not, choose to act. His choice.

I apologise for causing offence, but right now, we do not know whether or not the OP's barrel is rifled or not. In the event that the barrel IS rifled, then it is subject to the same interpretation of the import law as if it were a complete rifle.

A dealer in the UK may send a barrel, rifled or otherwise, to any country he cares to - such as the US of A. It is only when it has a chamber for a cartridge cut into it that it becomes, in UK law, a component part of a firearm and is subject to a Department of Trade & Industry export license.

As for the breaking down of major units such as a lock into individual parts, at some time the cost of all these individual shipments is going to make itself felt, although we do not know that that is of much concern to the OP.

tac

 

[Rifleman1776]

It is only when it has a chamber for a cartridge cut into it that it becomes, in UK law, a component part of a firearm and is subject to a Department of Trade & Industry export license.

According to the dealer, at the time, the only regulating factor was whether it had a breech plug or not. Without, it was simply an "iron tube". Breeched, it was subject to proof testing before being marketable or able to be shipped anywhere.

 

[TFoley]

According to the dealer, at the time, the only regulating factor was whether it had a breech plug or not. Without, it was simply an "iron tube". Breeched, it was subject to proof testing before being marketable or able to be shipped anywhere.

True - I had overlooked for a moment that we were discussing a muzzleloading arm.

Many years ago I bought unbreeched ten Whitworth barrels from Parker-Hale for a local gunmaker to use in his projects, and I am neither a dealer nor a gunsmith.

tac

 

[Damon]

Tac,
you are not correct on a few of your points. Stocks do not require import permits as long as they are not telescopic or folding.

Locks are not viewed the same as receivers. Yes an import permit is required but the entry procedures are different in terms of registration (locks are not firearms, just a major firearm part.)

M/L are still a bit of a grey area in as far as a complete M/L is a firearm (in Australia) and subject to safety testing and registration, but a barrel and breech plug probably need to be registered on arrival (this is the grey area depending on who you talk to re gunsmiths and customs).

Thanks,
Damon

 

[Kapow]

Hi there Damon. This is probably the one area that I can put my hand up as an expert! I have been through the highs and lows of the whole miserable experience. Please learn from my mistakes.

You will need an import permit (B709A) which you get from your Qld Firearms registry. The dealer in the USA will freight the barrel which will be intercepted by customs and they will send you a letter telling you so. You then send them the original B709A and they will release it to you. The tricky part is that Aust post will not send a barrel so you must either pick it up in Sydney(???Brisbane) or organise a courier at your expense.

Be warned that the barrel must contain a unique serial no. and you will need that no. before you can apply for the permit. Having fun yet??
I would advise you to ask all the right questions and do so by email and keep the record.

I have imported from Track of the Wolf and they were excellent. I also sent them a fax of the import permit to include with the barrel so that everyone knew it was a legal import. If you do everything right it is quite a simple if not protracted process and well worthwile now that the dollar is finally in our favour. Just bear in mind that all customs officers speak with a forked tongue. What are you trying to import and from whom??