Failure to fire rate

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

gday gentleman,

i tried finding this through a search with no luck though I’m sure it’s been discussed.

im keen to get into flintlocks, truth be told back in 2013 when I bought my first BP gun (an inline) I lamented the fact that I went that way and not a flinter. But I was nervous about the learning curve given there are so few flint shooters around here to help (none that I know of).

one thing I am curious on is, in a well tuned flintlock what is an acceptable misfire rate or rather how often can I expect it to go bang and not fizzle?

bear in mind I am not a target shooter, I hunt with my guns. It’s really the first few shots off a clean bore that count for me. I do hunt in inclement weather but in those cases I’d probably take a caplock or centrefire anyway.

As an aside, because I have no one local, when I do delve in and get one I will be relying on the knowledge and willingness of people on this forum to help me through the challenges. To be honest I wouldn’t even consider it if I didn’t think the help wasn’t there so take that as a sign of my view toward the members here. It is a great bunch.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well, @GoodRabbitPilgrim, the fail to fire rate is about the preparation to fire, the need for a good sparking lock, a clear touch hole and real black powder for the charge. Of course you need to ensure the breech is dry and clear of any obstruction such as grease, dried oils or water. After the first shot, its about keeping the flint sharp, the touch hole clear and preventing fouling from clogging the breech.

 

[ML48]

Well, @GoodRabbitPilgrim, the fail to fire rate is about the preparation to fire, the need for a good sparking lock, a clear touch hole and real black powder for the charge. Of course you need to ensure the breech is dry and clear of any obstruction such as grease, dried oils or water. After the first shot, its about keeping the flint sharp, the touch hole clear and preventing fouling from clogging the breech.

If this young man takes your advice...he should have 99.9% ignition every time. Well said and thank you for posting to him.

 

[Ironoxide]

I have two flintlocks. An old Armi Jager Kentucky style pistol with a 5/8 lock that had way too strong frizzen spring and bad geometry all over. After I spent a significant amount of work on it (documented in a thread on this forum) it still needs the frizzen to be altered.

However even in its bad state this pistol will for sure fire the first shot well with a sharp flint. It no longer smashes flints in 10 shots but dulls them fairly quickly (by having a round hump on the frizzen face). If one was careful to knap it a bit in place every few shots even that shoddy lock could be an OK hunting weapon (for small animals like rabbits, squirrels lightly loaded etc).

My second flintlock is a Pedersoli Frontier in 54 cal. The lock is as manufactured (perhaps tweaked a bitby my local distributor). Before I got this gun I would never believe a flintlock could be so reliable. I get around 40 shots per flint and I'm not very good at knapping. In first 20 shots with a new flint I don't even touch it other than tightening the holding screw.

With the clean Frontier rifle and sharp flint I would say it practically never misfires. Once I've shot it for a while (20 shots +) without cleaning I do get a single misfire but it is not a failure to ignite the pan. It is a failure to ignite the powder charge. I'm guessing fouling plays a part. When this happens I have to shove few grains of powder through the touch hole. This of course delays the ignition slightly. Next shots are fine until the breech fouls again.

One important piece of info is that all my shooting is at the range at paper targets. My guns don't get carried around, inverted, possibly banged as bit. If I was hunting with them first thing I would do is to use coarser powder as I noticed my 3f sometimes gets into the touch hole and unless I clean it before shooting it may cause a delayed ignition. Also coarser powder is less susceptible to moisture in the air I believe.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Get yourself a good book on the intricacies of flintlock shooting. It will go a long way. If you get stuck or have an issue crop up, you can always go back to the book to see what you're doing wrong.

When I got into muzzleloading, I had nobody to teach me. I read all that I could on the subject then just experimented. I've been at this for about 30 years or so and I probably still could learn a trick or two but I gained a lot just from getting out there and doing it.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Get yourself a good book on the intricacies of flintlock shooting. It will go a long way. If you get stuck or have an issue crop up, you can always go back to the book to see what you're doing wrong.

When I got into muzzleloading, I had nobody to teach me. I read all that I could on the subject then just experimented. I've been at this for about 30 years or so and I probably still could learn a trick or two but I gained a lot just from getting out there and doing it.

Any recommendations?

 

[oldwood]

Pilgrim...........Go to the NMLRA website . They have an excellent Flint lock book by Erik Bye . Reading that book will put you ahead in a hurry. The book goes into many years of detailed information. Read the book and go to the range and start................oldwood

 

[smo]

I expect my flintlock too go bang every time I pull the trigger.

And it will , if I do my part correctly.

 

[Woody Morgan]

You're here. Where else would you need to go?

wm

 

[BullRunBear]

Another vote for Eric A. Bye's "Flintlocks - A Practical Guide for Their Use and Appreciation". It is the most comprehensive and well-written book on the matter I've found. I regard it as a long-term reference book and only want a physical copy. Amazon offers it as a Kindle book for about 24 dollars. For some reason, their only paper version sells for 900 bucks!! which is absurd. The NMLRA website has it for 20 dollars but says they are sold out for the moment. I hope they get more copies in; it is a valuable book.

Jeff

PS: If it matters to you, the book uses heavy weight, high quality paper for the publication. It will hold up to repeated use. If the NMLRA gets more in I should pick up another copy to have available as a gift.

 

[tenngun]

Mia Culpa Mia Culpa
The lairds of the rocks shall bring down curses on me, but I got to say it
A well tuned lock, well cared for and well fed will hit at least 97% of the time. And I’ve been hunting exclusively with flintlocks and have never had a misfire when game was in the sights.
But
We gets lazy
We gets to having fun at the range and sloppy.
We cut corners
I bet at the range running thirty maybe forty ball at the target I will get one misfire, and if I don't heed the warning two. And that’s closer to 5% misfires.
Take care and a flinter is on par with a cap popper.
But it requires you undivided attention to do so. No woman since Eve was so jealous of your care as a flintlock
But if I tell you it’s one in 20 all my brother flinters will whip me with dirty tow.
And keep in mind it’s only that rate when you stop doing your job

 

[Jaegermeister]

I can’t remember my Jaeger ever having a failure to fire. Not bragging just thorough about my rifle and loading procedure. Sharp flint, dry powder and a clear path for ignition.

 

[Jaegermeister]

Of course I did dry ball once at a shooting match. Very embarrassing and humbling.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Of course I did dry ball once at a shooting match. Very embarrassing and humbling.

We’ve all been there I think!

 

[Don Steele]

Acceptable failure-to-fire rate...?
ZERO.
To achieve that rate, there is a unique skill set you will have to learn. I call it "Rock maintenance". The good news is that it is "learnable". There's no magic involved. BEFORE I learned the skills necessary, a good range session was one where the rifle simply went off every time. Eric Bye's book is a great resource, but currently out of print.
While we're on the topic, let me add a response t the question you didn't ask ( yet).
The number of shots you will get from a flint will vary. Rocks are rarely uniform. With a good quality lock you'll eventually get a good idea of what to expect, but there's no guaranteed number. One of the skills you will learn is how to "read" your flint AND..how to address the normal wear that's occurring with each shot and return the edge to optimum performance, until the flint needs to be replaced.
Enjoy the journey..!!!

 

[TreeMan]

With the proper setup of flint, lock, touch hole and powder I’ve found that there is almost 100% ignition in my flintlocks. At our monthly matches I see way more shooters having misfires with percussion guns. Someone is always pulling nipples trying to get their gun to go off. If I have a misfire it’s because my flint is loose or dull, I didn’t pick my touchlole, or my pan and frizzen is filthy. All my fault. Keep everything in check and you will very seldom have a misfire.

 

[French Colonial]

At the range with my Jaeger and not during a match I will just keep shooting until the flint gets so dull it just slides down the frizzen, this can take up to 20 or 30 shots with just a cloth to wipe off the flint and frizzen every so often.

Using a brass rod with a little step filed in to it I sharpen the flint while it is still in the jaws of the **** and off we go again.

Back in the 70's and 80's most of the shooters in my area were shooting percussion but now the majority are shooting flint, at a shoot yesterday I think only two out of about 12 were shooting percussion.

It will work for you Mr. Good Rabbit, take the plunge, (I would let you borrow one of my guns but I get the feeling your a ways from here)

 

[mmb617]

Here's some perspective from another flint lock newbie. I got my first black powder gun a couple months ago. It's a Traditions deerhunter model which it seems many here consider to have a not so good lock, yet if I do my part I'd be willing to bet money it will fire when I pull the trigger.

When I say do my part what I mean is have a good sharp flint and relatively clean gun. On a typical range session I shoot 20 rounds and because I'm cheap and want to get every last shot out of my flints I don't change them or knap them till I have a misfire, and I don't start each session with a fresh flint. I usually get 60 or more shots out of a flint which is well past what you'd get if you were after extreme reliability.

If I were hunting and wanted to be sure the gun would fire I'd be more concerned with the condition of my flint and that along with having a clean gun to start the day would probably give a 99% chance of firing on the first shot and at least the next half dozen or so.

The club I belong to has a large black powder contingent and I attended one of the shoots they hosted a while ago. I was surprised that out of 30 guys entered there were only a couple cap guns, almost everybody was shooting flinters. I didn't see many misfires at all.

 

[jdw276]

Isn't there a sticky somewhere on this site by paul van landingham, how to shoot flintlocks? I know there is s how to shoot off hand etc. But his writings are a great aid in getting started and learning the basic names, how to etc.

Yes there is by golly, under the general muzzleloading section, angie consolidated them under "tables and useful stuff" About 12th one down is the article i was referring to. Plus up under the flintlock section is a sticky, jeffs shooting flintlock recommendations. About 8 pages of comments. Lots of reference material there.

But then there is always the ability to ask a question on here and get 484 opinions and recommendations. LOL.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Pilgrim...........Go to the NMLRA website . They have an excellent Flint lock book by Erik Bye . Reading that book will put you ahead in a hurry. The book goes into many years of detailed information. Read the book and go to the range and start................oldwood

Sadly, the book "Flintlocks, A Practical Guide for Their Use and Appreciation" by @Eric Bye is sold out. Maybe Eric could have an alternative recommendation.

Flintlocks – a Practical Guide for their Use and Appreciation — The NMLRA

However, this book may be helpful. Does any one have a copy to make comments about?

Selected Treatises on Gunmaking & Shooting from Nineteenth- Century Europe — The NMLRA