Fast twist in a flintlock

[petemi]

Two years ago, a buddy of mine in Florida, Wayne Garber. finished a shorter barrel .50 flintlock with, I believe a 1 in 26 twist for conicals. (Bill Moody or Green Mountain barrel, I forget which) It works beautifully. I think it performs as well as most inlines. Wayne builds a new side hammer every year or two, and they are a work of art when they are done. Last years project was a round ball, .62 Jaeger. He hunted all of regular rifle season here in MI with me, but unfortunately never got a shot with it.

Has anyone else tried a fast twist in a flinter and if so, what were the results?

 

[Mountainman56]

Of course it will work and likely work very well with all kind of not-so-round projectiles however I'm not sure you will find too much enthusiasm for the topic on this forum. Next thing people are asking about belted bullets and plastic-patched-copper-jacketed-polymer-tipped balls. I'm guessing a short barreled fast twist flintlock may not be a lot of folk's idea of a "traditional" weapon.

 

[faw3]

Two or three things here...First why not E him yourself and ask whatthe twist of the last rifle was? (not trying to be cute but org "Jag's" hade fast wist about 1 turn with the length of barrel (see Muzz Blast for a booklet of a study of 3 years or so of them, it shouldcost very little and will be full of info) I dont have it but remember a lot of them soooooo Your going to hear for PRB work you need a slow twist even I'd say that's true...but when it came to the big bore Jag's,short barrels something sure messed up they seemed to have shot those big balls true with no problem while common sense would say the slower the better ( all this is going to be true gflint or perc I belive) Even Pedro's (Pedersoli's) Dixie made Jag with its 54 cal shows a 1X24 twist and the 2nd year I belive of the manfactures shoot at Friendship they :shocked2: the (ya think of something) out of Knight and the other inine makers when they came in with BP,PRB,stock iron sigts, (the only ones with out scopes) and started winning to many things with that 530 PRB and 95grs of 2f, so go figure I sure havent, Dixie proved whatever point they wanted to make but it did no good. So long twist good short/fast wist bad when shooting PRBs :surrender: unless....Fred :hatsoff: (good luck on this one guy! :grin:

 

[boar]

Like Mountainman said the members like you to shoot a flinchlock with Round Ball. They get into flame wars if you don't do things the traditional way. Just shoot what you like and enjoy the sport as the shape this country is in, it may not last long. Dilly

 

[Russianblood]

He's just asking about a fast twist and a round ball. :surrender: easy there people.

If shooting round balls from a fast twist barrel, you need deep rifling and light loads of powder. Otherwise, the ball will skip over the rifling and all accuracy will be gone. I have a .45 Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle that has a 42" barrel and 1:48 twist shallow rifling. It shoots round balls accurately but I have to use a .450 or .451 round ball and .010 patch to get it to do so. It's quite accurate with .45 Maxi-Balls as well. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Has anyone else tried a fast twist in a flinter and if so, what were the results?

I have personal experience with 1:48" twists in TC's standard cap and Flint barrels, and patched round balls are extremely accurate in them with full power max/near-max hunting loads in .45/.50/.54cals...no skipping rifling in TC's barrels...all inside 3" at 100yds from the bench with the following load:

90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke Wonderwads
.018" TC precut/prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .440/.490/.530 balls

Best advice is to go to the range and shoot them yourself...use a snug over powder wad like Oxyoke Wonderwads or something, and a good snug patch/ball combo and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well they shoot in a 1:28 or something like that.
The speed of the twist is not going to make them[url] inaccurate...spin[/url] makes things more accurate...as long as you keep the material of the patched ball pressed tight into the grooves it should be fine.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Big ball, fast twist, moderate powder charge, kills good.

 

[petemi]

I don't have a clue as to what twist he put in the Jaeger. Knowing Wayne, when he replicates a gun it is as original. He didn't try to reproduce anything when he built the fast .50. It was his idea and plan.

 

[pegro1]

Personally I say always go traditional, if it has no twist then don't twist it, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. A smoothbore should stay smoothbore, don't rifle it its the way it was made, if it was rifled would you remove the rifling to make it a smoothbore?

 

[roundball]

"...if it was rifled would you remove the rifling to make it a smoothbore?..."

Just as an aside, that actually doesn't seem to be all that uncommon, particularly for a rifled barrel that's been neglected.

 

[Hunter66]

I have an RMC Accusporter flintlock that has a 24" 1 in 28" twist barrel. It shoots great and velocity is good. It is a joy to carry when I hunt in really steep terrain and it is also nice on the occasion went I hunt from a tree. Sometimes I just don't feel like carrying a nine pound rifle.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I would own a fast twist FL. That is the only way I would want it. Ron

 

[tg]

" I'm guessing a short barreled fast twist flintlock may not be a lot of folk's idea of a "traditional" weapon."

I think we have come to the point that it really doesn't matter anymore. tradition in ML hunting is pretty much gone, probably not much point in even talking about it anymore.many are useing all the modern components that gave birth to the (I) word guns, by useing the same technology and just changing the cosmetic appearance of the gun to a sidelock type, it is still a modern ML outfit. performance wise.

 

[Old40Rod]

I've never tried it, but I can't think of why shooting a fast twist in a flinter would give you vastly different results compared to shooting a fast twist in a percussion rifle. Fast twist favors bullet projectiles, slower twist favors PRB. So if you plan to mainly shoot bullets, you are likely to achieve better accuracy with a faster twist... with PRB, vice versa, all other factors being equal. You still have to line up the sights on the target and pull the trigger thingy.

:blah:

 

[tg]

"Two years ago, a buddy of mine in Florida finished a shorter barrel .50 flintlock with, I believe a 1 in 26 twist for conicals. It works beautifully. I think it performs as well as most inlines."

I am unable to express the feeling I have that this remarkable goal has been achieved.

 

[Sherlock]

The matter not really addressed is that the function of the twist is to stabilize the bullet. Original guns of mostly slow twist nearly always had long barrels and deep grooves, nearly all of which factors minimized fouling from the generally poorer quality of powder in the past, yet still gave very good accuracy. A fast twist isn't even needed if you want to shoot the lightest possible real (TM) bullet. A fast twist will of course stabilize a long slug in a flintlock but you really can't load it up greatly without getting into flashhole problems. Even the caplock Whitworths had tremendous problems because of 100 grain charges in the 45 bore to the extent of going to platinum lined nipples in an attempt to contain the pressures. Wonky

 

[mazo kid]

I don't own one, but I believe the cut off for accurate round ball shooting is about 1:48". Your mileage may vary; all my rifled bores are 1-66" to 1-72". Emery

 

[roundball]

I don't own one, but I believe the cut off for accurate round ball shooting is about 1:48". Your mileage may vary; all my rifled bores are 1-66" to 1-72". Emery

And we also have to remember that caliber plays a part in twist as well so it's not a simple across the board cut off...for example, the 1:48" is the round ball twist for smaller calibers like the .40cal ...and probably why a .45 is so accurate in a 1:48" because it's also a relative small caliber.

 

[Dphar]

Two years ago, a buddy of mine in Florida, Wayne Garber. finished a shorter barrel .50 flintlock with, I believe a 1 in 26 twist for conicals. (Bill Moody or Green Mountain barrel, I forget which) It works beautifully. I think it performs as well as most inlines. Wayne builds a new side hammer every year or two, and they are a work of art when they are done. Last years project was a round ball, .62 Jaeger. He hunted all of regular rifle season here in MI with me, but unfortunately never got a shot with it.

Has anyone else tried a fast twist in a flinter and if so, what were the results? Wayne doesn't sell his guns, he keeps them or gives them to friends. He can provide more details at [email protected]

Twists faster than abut 1:48 are not needed for RBs. Increasing the twist to 1:30 will likely result in the rifle only be usable with light powder charges unless its of very small bore. The British fell into this trap and made quite a few rifles that were basically useless for their intended purposes. Twists of 1 turn in the barrel length, sometimes 24-26" were common, even though military testing proved that a much slower twist shot as well or better.
The rifles shot OK accuracy wise but when a 66 caliber rifle will only shoot 50-60 grains of powder without stripping the patch the trajectory gets very high going past about 50 yards.
Where as a 72" to 120" twist in a 66-69 will produce a pointblank range for deer hunting of 130 yards or so with 120-160 grains of powder. Personally I think twists around 80 inches are about as slow as needed for rifles to at least 72 caliber.

Dan

 

[Runner]

My 1-32 50 caliber shallow rifled barrel shot patched roundball great at 70 grains of 3f 777. Figure 90 grains or better of goex to equal the load. Minute of squirrel head out to 40 yards or so that it was tested at. I was learning about the gun by squirrel hunting with it. After that trip, I don't think it was never fired again until it left here.
So, yes it can be done with real power loads. The basic question at this point is why? If you can't get within roundball range then you fail the traditional hunting test. I thought that was what this was about.