Favorite non-toxic shot, and sizes, for waterfowl?

[BillinOregon]

Gang, which of the various non-toxic shot (steel, Hevi, Nice, Bismuth, tungsten matrix, et al) is giving you the best results on waterfowl from your muzzleloader? What shot sizes are you finding work best on duck-sized birds and on geese? I'm pretty sure I know the answers on affordable steel, but as the others are considerably more expensive, I'd like to get this right the first time, if you know what I mean. I spotted some dusty old Bismuth No. 4 recently, but kind of thought it might be on the large side for ducks -- especially teal -- and on the small side for geese.
I'd also be interested in comments on traditional wadding you are using. I hope to avoid steel and the need for --YUCK -- plastic wads.

 

[Scota4570]

Used to shoot my Beretta O/U on bay ducks. Steel is useless. I was never able to kill a duck with steel. Very close (15 yard) easy shots (straight at me) on bluebills were a bust. Plastic wads are needed, sorry.

I am now shooting heavy weight 13 in my cartridge shotguns. Very nice stuff, it is a sintered and molded metal product. It is very uniform and round. The density is 12ish G/cc from my batch. Bucks Run had it a while back. It would be my pick.

Nice shot would be good. It does not require special wadding. It is very expensive. Never tried it though.

 

[BrownBear]

I don't have enough experience with either to substantiate the claim, but in my limited shooting with ITX it seems to "hit harder" than bismuth somehow. It's my solid impression that bigger birds fold better and die quicker with the ITX than bismuth. In fact it may be better than lead. I hunted with lead from a muzzleloader for many years back in the 70's and 80's and killed a whole lot of birds.

Truth be known, my experience with bismuth is not recent. The earliest stuff had a questionable rep, and that was what I was using (cut it out of loaded ammo, since it wasn't available loose at that time). The contemporary bismuth is a whole lot better in my comparison using cartridges, but I haven't tried it in a ML yet. No need to in my book, since I'm so impressed with ITX.

For wads I'm using a dry Type A (hard .125" cardboard), then a fiber wad lubed with olive oil, then the shot, then an OS card. Lotta guys waggle about how bad the fiber wads are and how much better performance you get from a stack of OS cards instead. I have to guess they're not loading them with cold hands, and that they have to do some periodic bore cleaning. In my experience stacks of OS cards don't mix with cold hands, wind and rain, and lack of lube and the scraping effect of that Type A lead to thick, hard bore fouling in short order.

Different strokes for different folks. But my combo has an accumulated 30 years of field testing and is approved for cold fingers and gloves. :wink:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

One of my buddies has had good results with #4 shot in either bismuth or Nice Shot for Lesser Canadas, Snows, and the larger ducks. His 12ga double is choked (IIRC) IC & Mod, and the load is 1.1/4oz of shot over 3dr (equal volume) of Goex 2Fg, but I cannot recall what wads he used over powder.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Roguedog]

I too cannot stand steel shot and recently purchased a couple of pounds of ITX #6 shot. Based on feedback from BrownBear, I am looking forward to trying it this year on mallards and teal. I typically keep most of my shots within 30 yards. I am hoping that I can achieve some performance similar to lead. When I put a good shot on a bird, I want it to go down. I will report back later this year once I've had a chance to try it.

Jeff

 

[BillinOregon]

Will track down some of this ITX. Brownie, appreciate the "approved for cold fingers" wad column!

 

[BillinOregon]

Non-tox comparison: I just Goggled up some of the better known lead subs and here is what I found about specific gravity and cost per pound:
Lead, 11.2 grams/cc;
Steel 7.89 grams/cc, $1.60/pound
Hevi-shot, 12 grams/cc, $38.50 pound;
ITX shot, 10 grams/cc, $27.00 pound;
NICE shot, 10.2 grams/cc, $31.50/pound;
Bismuth, 9.71 grams/cc, $23.33/pound.
Worth considering!

 

[Scota4570]

Here is a discussion on the HW-13 I mentioned. When I bought it was cheaper than ITX and nice shot. Bucks Run reloading is the vendor. I recall paying about $13 a pound. Could b wrong on that though.

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=156113

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Bismuth 2's and BB's. I harvested them from regular 12 gauge shells, and as the sizes worked on geese..., never bothered to try any other type.

LD

 

[dbutch]

Bill this is for others....
Ok Here's the broken record spinning...again,again,again :grin:

#2 hevi-shot....kills them dead-deader!!!

I don't blink because I'm commited.....Just ordered 7 lbs of #2 Hevi-shot and 2 kilo's(35 Oz ea.) #2 Nice-shot.
Been lots of BP burned this fall.
Going to give the Nice-shot a go yet this year.
Ran out of Goose season..working on divers and the big triple curl red legs now! :grin:
Go get-um guy's! They are out there!

 

[BillinOregon]

Dan, er, Makeumsmoke, I'll be eagerly awaiting your report on the Nice shot.

 

[Drago]

Thanks for the information here, hoping to get some ducks this year.

 

[vthunter52]

This year has been banner....from the Lake blind on Lake Champlain...4 hunter's over 3 weekends have but 65 ducks and 2 geese in the freezer( I'm the only one shooting BP, and my 20ga SxS has bagged 12, with 2 doubles on mallards. As stated before I use 70 grs. ffg, with 1 oz. # 2 steel, and suffer no problems.....as a group this the best season in 15, and out of the same blind, and same location since 1947......Gary

 

[BillinOregon]

Gary, that's remarkable work, especially with steel in a muzzleloading 20.
Funny, I have had Pedersoli percussion side-by-sides in 10, 12 and 20 gauge, and the 20 was not only the liveliest to handle but gave me the best patterns.

 

[vthunter52]

Thanks, I will admit that this particular 20 ga. is the most accurate, and hardest shooting weapon that I've had in a long time. At under 6 lbs. it does let you know when you release the trigger, but I have never noticed that when shooting at game....only at days end.....Gary

 

[dbutch]

Thats good news!
This is the best report I have read on steel.
I want to learn more.

Is your 20 ga. dbl choked?
What is the average shot distance?
Do you get pass throughs?
Cripple rate?

I need to chronograph my shot loads.

As duck hunter we all live in the past(good days) and hope it happens again.
Add some dogs and good friends and you have heaven! :thumbsup:

 

[vthunter52]

Thanks for the comment's. My 20 is open chokes, and the avg. shot over decoys is 25 yds., or I let them pass, and circle back. I'm lucky, and have few cripples, but have attended several steel shot seminar's that were in the past put on by Remington, and learned that shooting steel is a lot different than lead, and takes some getting used to. Instead of a 15-18 foot shot string with lead, which is due to the deformation of the shot, steel has a 18-20 inch spread, and a higher velocity, so most shoot behind.....Swing on the bird, and when you see the sight picture of the bead on the ducks beak.....pull the trigger. Same sight picture for all reasonable ranges! It will also be easy, with a little practice to actually see the shot string, it will appear as a flight of gnats. Best of luck, and BP waterfowling is one of the most addicting shooting I've ever experienced......oh for the old market hunting days.....good hunting....Gary