FF or FFFG in .54 GPR

[hangfast]

I'm working up a load in my newly acquired .54 GPR with GOEX FF powder. I had a nice round 5 shot group @100 yards at about 6" with a .535 ball and .015 pre lube patch Ignition was OK with a couple hesitations. Wiping between shots made loading easy.

Then I tried FFF powder and the group shrank to 3" @100 yards. Same patch, ball and loading technique. Ignition was instantaneous for all 5 shots.

I'm relatively new to PRB shooting and everything I've read recommends FF powder in the .54 but I got obviously better results with FFF. Am I missing something here?

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno where the 2f recommendation got its start, but it's pretty spurious. Go with what works best in your gun, as 3f most certainly does.

As a matter of fact my 54 GPR feels the same way about 3f.

 

[NEW222]

Great topic. I just recently acquired a 54 calibre New Englander and had been reading that FFF is good up to 50 calibre and FF is recommended on anything above 50. I too have a pound of FFF and was going to try that anyways. Thanks for sharing your results.

 

[NEW222]

And if you don't mind, what was your powder charge using FF, and what was your charge using the FFF? I have been reading that you should lessen your FFF load by approximately 7-10% overall from the FF load.

 

[OBX-TXN]

I would appreciate the same info for my .54 GPR. I know each rifle is a little different but it would give me a "base" idea ...

 

[BrownBear]

My GRP 54 is accurate over a wide range of powder charges with Goex 3f or Pyrodex P, while it's really picky with 2f Goex and has never shot Pyrodex RS well. It's somewhere in between accuracy with Triple Seven, whether 2f or 3f. It has a charge it really likes with either one, but only that charge.

The nice thing for me about that wide range of charges working with Goex 3f, I can adjust charges up and down a lot depending on where and what I'm hunting. It certainly shoots 60 grains well, but at least as accurate with 90 grains. That means I drop it down for deer in close country and snort it up for deer in open country or for elk or moose.

The difference in trajectory to 100 yards is startling when comparing 60 grains to 90 grains. It's just a whole lot flatter with 90. Nice thing is, I don't even have to change the sights when moving the charge up and down the scale.

There's a whole lot of bull snort floating around the muzzleloading world, and guys will repeat it like it's gospel. The 3f for 50 cal and less and 2f for everything bigger is on the list. So's the claim that a 1:48 twist is some kind of compromise. Heck, the original Hawken rifles and a whole lot more originals were 1:48 twist. From all I've been able to read, 1:48 was pretty standard back then. But guys still whisper the word "compromise" like it's some kind of secret password for REAL muzzleloaders. :rotf:

 

[Boomerang]

Ya I found that 3f shoots better than 2f in mine also. I use anywhere from 20 to 100 gr. In my 54 GPR with 100% reliable ignition.

 

[George]

This has nothing to do with accuracy, but Lyman did a good comparison of 2F and 3F powder in .54 caliber rifles as to pressures, velocity and fouling in their 1975 first edition Black Powder Handbook.



Spence

 

[Pete G]

3F burns faster than 2F to the extent that you generally use about 10% less to get the same velocities as a 2F load. Before you give up on load development with 2F try upping your powder charges a little bit. You might find that perfect load. In the meantime you can shoot the lesser 3F load and not burn as much powder, but as a general rule (very general) you probably should not pursue a maximum load of 3F in the larger calibers.

 

[nwtradegun]

i have used 3f for ALL my guns. uses less than 2 f. cut back on 3f by 15 per cent. less fouling.

 

[tenngun]

The 3f small caliber 2 f big caliber thing is old,I don't know how old. Old muskets were often loaded with 1 f. I had a .54 with a 1/66 twist in 42 inchs that cloverleafed at 50 yards and less then 3 inch at 100. I shot 70 grains 3 behind a .526 in .1500 in a green river brand barrel.
In a modern steel barrel you have to get real stupid to blow the gun. Your prefomance will go in to the crapper long before you reach danger zone.
Shoot what shoots best.

 

[hangfast]

Great topic. I just recently acquired a 54 calibre New Englander and had been reading that FFF is good up to 50 calibre and FF is recommended on anything above 50. I too have a pound of FFF and was going to try that anyways. Thanks for sharing your results.

I'm using 90 gr (V) with both powders. This is my starting point and I intend to up the charge in further testing. My interest is hunting and extended range so I need the most velocity as is practical. I do a lot of steel target product testing so my range is full of targets out to 450 yards. The temptation to reach out past 100 with my BP is overwhelming. In my last session I was hitting an 8" gong at 130 yards consistently. I'm really liking my new (old) GPR!

I bought this rifle over a year ago and had serious ignition problems with the original GPR lock. I replaced it with an L&R and it works GREAT now.

 

[NEW222]

Thank you.

 

[nkbj]

Jacks Battle works fine.

 

[hangfast]

It is interesting to note that there was no real change in the POI on the 100 yard target between equal charges of 3F and 2F. I would have thought an equal charge of 3F would print higher on the target than 2F given the higher velocity.

 

[mr.flintlock]

I used to buy in to the recommendation of 3f for up to 45 caliber and 2f for 50 cal and up. for several years now I have used 3f for everything from .32 to 62 caliber. 3f burns faster, cleaner and gives higher velocities with less powder. I have a .54 caliber Big Bore Mountain rifle that I always loaded with 90gr ffg. I now use 65gr fffg for the same results. Bottom line is that every rifle is different and you need to find what your rifle likes best.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Then I tried FFF powder and the group shrank to 3" @100 yards.

You should always go with what works best, and a 3" group at 100 yards is schweeeet.

I too prefer 3Fg Goex in my .54 caliber rifles. I find it burns a bit cleaner than 2Fg, but in a pinch if all I had was 2Fg it would work too.

I started using 3Fg as I only carry one horn for simplicity, and found that it works fine for prime and main charge. I know a lot of folks swear by imported powders of one type or another, and I've tried them and they work well. However, I also choose to use the GOEX as it's made inside America, and you never know what will happen with importation of powder in the future, and I'd hate for the American company to go belly up, and then the imported supply of powder to dry up...., so I go American. I'm also not into serious competition, so don't need the absolute best group possible when just hunting or plinking or going to local shoots.

What I'd like to know is if you get a pound of GOEX Reenactor Powder, and see how well it shoot with the less expensive stuff.

LD

 

[Billnpatti]

Naw, you aren't missing anything. Actually, you are learning something. Sometimes the old rule of thumb that says that you should use FFg in a .54 just doesn't always hold true. Shoot what works best in your rifle. From what you are saying, FFFg is the powder of choice for your rifle.

 

[nkbj]

The GPR is capable of being safely shot with loads excessive to any needs other than hunting loads for people with really really good eyesight.
For those purposes the way to go is to start off at the power level you wish to achieve and then learn how to make that much powder accurate in your particular rifle. It might take juggling your lube, patch material, an over powder shielding paper or card, who knows. That's an approach I saw someone successfully implement forty years ago. Back then when we had really good eyes.

 

[William O.]

My .54 Trade Rifle barrel was always particular and I never could find any charge of 3f that gave decent accuracy so I've only used 85 grains of 2f ever since. About the same with the GPR's that I've owned over the years as well, although I never did as extensive load work up on them as I did with my TR barreled rifle. So far, I've only been trying 3f in my .50's. Now, I had a Great Plains "Hunter" barrel that was fitted to a Cabellas stock that was in .50. Being that it was a fast twist I only tried conicals in it but also found that it definitely preferred 3f, and lots of it. I never really noticed a difference in the amount of fouling between the two granulations though. To me, it was just normal and to be expected when shooting black powder.
I do want to mention that having owned and shot 6 different Lyman/Investarms rifles that they all come from the factory with the rifling a bit sharp on the edges, needing either polishing or simply shot in. Plenty of different was to accomplish this but each barrel was different and each needed a different amount of polishing. Each had it's own fouling characteristics until the point at which things in the bore had smoothed out. Accuracy is included in this, so if you have a GPR with less than around 100 shots through it you may find that what seems to give decent accuracy in the beginning as far as load combinations may seem totally different later on.
As always, your mileage may vary. Like I said, half the fun is just burning powder in it no matter how close together it makes the holes. :v