FF vs FFF in .50

[jhenry1728]

Once again, the Forum comes through! I was getting ready to drop about $20+ for a pound of 2fg to start my 42" Green Mountain .50. I'll likely stick with the 3fg I already have.

 

[tg]

The main issue behind the rule is the faster/higher pressure spike with 3f it is a fact that one can get more blow by with 3f but by reducing the load by 15% the spike is minimized, though a barrel using 3f will likely go out before a barrel using 2f but for most shooters/situations it is a non issue. The mad Monk did some tests on the effect of 3f and barrel wear several years ago on a Lyman rifle and if I recall it took a lot of shooting but it did show a difference, he also tested mixing 2f/3f 50% of each quite a few folks were using this mix some time back and liked it, I used it for a while but went back to 3f it worked OK but there was not enouigh difference in my experience to bother with it , he also tested the mix and showed that it did not "seperate" by movement of the container which was a concerned raised by some.

 

[Tom Compton]

I guess I just like being different.

FFg in everything from pistols and .32 flinters up except priming and use FFFFg there. More consistant in my experience.

I wipe between shots so don't worry about "increased fouling".

 

[hanshi]

Patch blow-by is a symptom of an "unbalanced" load. I use 3f for everything but manage to get the load components to work together. 3f generates higher pressure so things such as patch thickness, lube, powder charge, seating pressure, etc, have to be manipulated for best results. An over powder wad is one of the best and easiest ways to prevent patch burnout. OP wads should be considered part of the "balancing" of a load.

 

[Billnpatti]

It will all depend on your particular rifle. I have one that likes 2f but the other 50s all like 3f. I have found that 3f burns cleaner than 2f. I know some say differently but this is my experience. I shoot only Goex black powder because it is the one most readily available. Other brands of 2f may actually burn more cleanly than the same brand of 3f but no so with Goex in my experience. About the only way you will ever know which granulation is best for your rifle is to get a pound of 3f and a pound of 2f and see which it prefers. It may actually make no difference in your rifle but you will have to buy some of each to find out.

One trick that I have found to give me better combustion and more consistant muzzle velocities is to use an over powder wad. You can use either felt or leather. Heck, you can even use some Cream of Wheat or grits directly on top of your powder. Either will do the same as an over powder wad and that is to provide a better seal between the projectile and the burning powder. For a .50 caliber rifle, about a 20 grain powder measure full will be about right. Just settle your powder in your barrel with a couple taps on the barrel and then add the grits. Top it off with a PRB and you are all set. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Its all the same powder.
As we know, when a manufacturing run (LOT#) of BP is made, it ends up being broken into many different size granulations and they're screened off into different storage areas...but all the kernels of BP are the same chemical composition.

The smaller granulations simply burn faster (and cleaner) generating a faster rising spike on the pressure curve...but its the same powder...if I normally use a max load of 2F, I reduce the 3F substitute charge by 10-15% to keep the pressure in the same ball park.

For example, I recently sighted in a .58cal load using 100grns Goex 2F...then test substituting 90grns Goex 3F I got almost the identical POI...1/4"-1/2" higher than the 100grn 2F charge at 50yds...and I know from past experience if I don't want to change the sights, I can drop down another 5grns of 3F to 85, and the POI will be right on that of the 100grn 2F charge.

Its all the same powder...just need to manipulate it accordingly when changing granulation sizes...make an appropriate charge of 3F to duplicate and/or improve upon a charge of 2F.

I found 3F to be more accurate in .40/.45/.50/.54/.58/.62cal rifles and in .28 & .20ga smoothbores as my shot loads actually pattern better with 3F.

I've also seen an Internet article or two allegedly quoting some old time smoothbore shooters that with its faster ignition, burn time, and velocity, 3F gets the payload out of the barrel sooner which helps wingshooting but I have no personal knowledge or official source for that.

 

[SimonKenton]

Blizzard, what's your rate of twist? I have a 1 in 72" rate which LC Rice used in the old Sharon Hawken barrels. He explained that for HEAVY hunting loads in a .54 the 1 in 66" is a tad too fast. You seem to get tighter groups with high velocities as the rate of twist decreases slightly.
Your results may vary. :wink:

-Ray

 

[freeloader]

I have owned 7 muzzleloaders over the last 5yrs. and all but two were 50 cal.The only rifle that liked 2F better than 3F was the one 54 cal. rifle I owned. Every thing else liked 3F better.
I have recently purchased a Chambers York in 50 cal. which came with a B weight Rice barrel. The literature that they sent me scared me half to death. They said use nothing but 2F and suggested loads of 50 grs. Kind off an anemic load if you ask me, but with a B weight swamped barrel I can kind of see their logic at the waist there cant be much more than 1/16" barrel material left on the gun,and cut for a barrel lug ta boot.
I contacted Chambers and he said it was written by lawyers and just don't go crazy.But I still gotta wonder. It makes for a wonderful slim profile, but if I got to load the way they (the lawyers) suggest, than it aint gonna be much of a shooter.

 

[Dphar]

FFF will work as will FF. I have a friend who gets outstanding accuracy from a 45 using 1.5F Swiss. Its marginally coarser than Swiss FF.
Range testing is the answer.
Dan

 

[54ball]

My .45 Gillespie flinter likes 2ffg best, even as prime.