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FILEING 101.1

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Zonie

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About a year ago, I posted this. As we now have over 1000 new members, I thought it might be time to repost it for those of you who haven't worked at building guns before.
Hope it helps some of you. :)


Many of you already know the subject of this post however there are many out there who decided that there are more girls in the Typing Class than there are in the Shop classes. Others had the misfortune of being in one of our new schools where such mundane subjects as Wood Shop, Metal Shop, Drafting and Auto Shop are not even offered. It is for these people I am writing this.

FILES
While everyone seems to know what a file is, most don't know what kind of files are available. I will stick to the ones most commonly used when working/building rifles.

There are several shapes of what most people think of as a common flat file. The names of these are WARDING, MILL, FLAT and HAND. They are all similar but the Warding is rather thin and the Hand is fairly thick. The others are in between in the order listed. The other difference is the first four are tapered while the hand file edges are parallel.
The Hand file has one or more "safe" edges meaning the edge doesn't have teeth. This is handy when you want to file up to a surface but you do not want to cut into it.

Other files:
There are triangular, square, round straight, rat-tail, knife, and dozens if not hundreds of other file shapes but the only ones important to most gun makers are the flat, triangular (three-square), square, round and maybe the knife.

I am not covering rasps but they are similar to the above files except they have individual punched teeth and are made for cutting wood.

The TOOTH STYLE can be summed up as either a Single-Cut or a Double-Cut.
As the names describe, the single cut has one set of teeth running diagonally across its face. These produce the smoothest finish of the two styles. They are also rather slow cutting.
The Double-Cut has two sets of teeth crossing one another. This gives a diamond appearance to the files face. This style as you might guess cuts much faster than the Single-Cut but leaves a much rougher surface.

TOOTH SPACING Listed from the roughest to the smoothest, the tooth spacing names are: ROUGH, COARSE, BASTARD, SECOND-CUT, SMOOTH and DEAD SMOOTH. The commonly available files at the Hardware store are the Bastard, Second-Cut and Smooth.
If given only two to choose from I would take the Bastard and the Smooth as these can do about anything I need to do when working on Muzzle-Loading guns.

It also reminds me of the story of the man wanting to buy a file. The owner of the Hardware store asked if he could help and the man said he needed a file. The owner said "will I have this nice Bastard file here." The man, not wanting to look ignorant replied, "No, I think I'll take that Son of a gripe over there."

The TANG: Beware the Tang!! Some feel they don't need a handle on their files but IMO their fooling themselves. A handle driven down over the tang not only protects you from getting stabbed but serves to help you control the way the file removes material. If you don't want to buy a handle, then buy a 3/4 or 1 inch dowel rod, cut it off, drill a hole in the center and drive it onto the tang. You will be glad you did.

FILING: Everyone seems to know how to file, but more files are worn out by these people than by cutting material.
Say, what?? Most people just rub the file forward and backwards over the metal, pushing down as hard as they can and going as fast as their arms can go. This is a sure way to wear the files teeth out.
Things to think about:

1.The file must be harder than the material you want to cut. Don't file "really hard" materials. Grind them.

2.The file ONLY cuts on the forward stroke. Lift the file or at least remove all downward pressure when pulling the file back across the work.

3.The act of cutting actually melts the material being cut, and this heat can remove the hardness of the files teeth. The faster you file the worse the effects of this are. Take slow strokes without stopping in mid stroke.

4. Dragging the file tooth backwards over the metal will dull the files teeth. (See #2).

5. Dirt in the files teeth will grind the tooths sharp cutting edge off of the file if you use it in that condition. It will not "self clean" without damaging itself.

6. If filings remain in the files teeth, it cannot cut well. If you don't have a File Card (a little pad with wires sticking out of it used to clean the file) buy a little brass wire brush. I've seen these as cheap as 50 cents and worth every penny.

7. A light dusting of chalk can help keep the teeth clean when cutting gummy material like brass but it, like dust can take its toll on the files sharpness if overused.

8. Do not use Oil when filing. Oil on the file or work will make it "skip". In doing so the speed will increase and the files teeth will overheat on their first bite. (See #3).

9. Use moderate, even down pressure on the forward stroke. Heavy pressure increases the heat from cutting and places un-called for stresses in the teeth which will result in dulling them. Heavy pressure also makes controling the file much more difficult which in turn increases the likelyhood of you making an error.
Using Light pressure will cause the file to "Skip"(See #8).
When filing use only enough downward pressure so that the file is taking a good smooth bite on the work. You will be able to feel it working with your hands. I cannot describe the feeling. (Boy, there is a opening but this is a family show).

10. All files are really hard. This makes them brittle so don't use them to pry with. Also, because they are all equally hard, they can damage each other if you just throw them into a drawer. Store them in a way that keeps them clean and keeps them from banging into each other.

DRAW FILING
A technique used for smoothing the work surface.
Often this is done on the barrel flats to remove the grind or mill marks left by the barrel maker.
Although the Mill File with "Smooth" teeth is recommended, (no, not worn out. Smooth, remember from up above?) any flat file will work but don't use a Double Cut file and use the finest teeth file available to you.
I prefer files with the small edges made "safe" (without teeth) to keep from accidently making scratches when I'm Draw filing. You can grind off the teeth on your file if you wish to have a "safe edge".

A light coat of your kids chalk will help keep the files teeth clean while you do this process.
With the work going away from you, hold the file across the work at about 90 degrees to the direction you wish to cut.
The Tang should be on your right*. With the tang on your right, the file will cut as you push it away from you.
Because it is at 90 degrees to the direction of the cut it will make very smooth cuts however the filings won't be able to escape from the teeth. Because of this, it is recommended that after each cut or stroke, brush the teeth to remove the chips (or at least tap the file on a piece of wood several times to knock out the filings). Failure to do this will cause the filings to gall. Galling is when the filings weld themselves to the work and then tear loose leaving an ugly scar or scratch.
It goes without saying you should think only of keeping the file level to keep from rounding off the flats you are trying to smooth and concentrate on making long, smooth strokes.
Rotate the barrel to the next flat when you want to work on it. You should only work on the "top" flat. Do not try to set the file at an angle to the workbench and work on another flat or you will have more than your fair share of problems.

Filing is perhaps the most used process in building a black-powder rifle. Buy the BEST files you can find and afford. Treat them with the care all fine tools deserve. This especially means keep them away from your kids (and others who don't know all the things you now know about files).

* Some prefer to have the tang on the left. If you use the file in this position, the file will cut while you pull the it towards you.

If you have made it to here, give yourself 1/2 Credit hour and go pop a top! You've earned it. ::
 
I prefer files with the small edges made "safe" (without teeth) to keep from accidently making scratches when I'm Draw filing. You can grind off the teeth on your file if you wish to have a "safe edge".


3.The act of cutting actually melts the material being cut, and this heat can remove the hardness of the files teeth. The faster you file the worse the effects of this are.

It would seem to me that doing ANY grinding on a file would cause the temper to disapate in the file.
If rubbing it fast and on the wrong stroke cause this i am sure grinding would even more so.:results:


Woody
 
"It would seem to me that doing ANY grinding on a file would cause the temper to disapate in the file."

Your correct, up to a point. The file teeth right next to the grinding will loose their hardness.
I didn't go into the fine points of grinding the teeth off of a file.
Grinding produces a tremendous amount of heat, so the first and most important thing is to have a water quench right next to the grinder, and remove the teeth just a little at a time quenching often.
This is a time consuming process for a person without an industrial cooling system because of the small amounts of material that can be safely removed between quenches but it can be done.
(Industrial grinding machines pump hundreds of gallons per hour onto the grinding wheel and the part to prevent this overheating.)
 
Greetings Zonie,

Your Filing 101.1 dessertation is totally correct and great.

As a retired Vocation Trades and Industrial Arts Teacher (37 years) I can appreciate the file information you posted.
It brings back many memories.

All of you beginners out there pay attention to Professor Zonie. He has it down exactly right.

I would add only one point. NEVER, NEVER use a file without a handle. If commercial file handles are not available, old golf balls make good handles. Just drill a hole slightly smaller than the tang in the golf ball and jam the ball on the tang.

And what and when is your next lecture, Professor Zonie?

Best regards, John L. Hinnant
 
I would add only one point

Can I add 2 points? :thumbsup:

When a file is blunt, buy a new one and put the old one somewhere it won't come back to haunt you. Don't wind up with a tool chest full of blunt files.

If you want a file for brass, take an ordinary file and mark it so you know never to use it on iron.
 
I would add only one point

Can I add 2 points? :thumbsup:
One more...

Keep your wood and metal files apart. Use different color handles to differentiate. There's nothing as annoying as getting iron filings embedded in a bit of wood, or watching the rust stains form with the first coat of sealer on clear maple. Oh well.... one more chunk for the firepit ::
 
When a file is blunt, buy a new one and put the old one somewhere it won't come back to haunt you. Don't wind up with a tool chest full of blunt files.

If it's a dull pillar file with parallel edges, send it to me and I'll make ya a chisel that will hold a great edge!
 
I appricate the lesson and will put it use this weekend.
After draw filing the barrel flats, do you go straight to finishing with sand paper?
 
Dr. Zonie:

We have all benefited from your discourse on files and techniques for using them. Your post refreshed my memory for sure. I think a lot of the members (especially 'retreads' like me) would appreciate reading "tutorials" like yours in a variety of gun making topics. Perhaps if there is sufficient output from the community Claude could set up a new forum, maybe read-only. Just thinkin' out loud.

Brgds, BJ
 
Greetings Zonie,


I would add only one point. NEVER, NEVER use a file without a handle. If commercial file handles are not available, old golf balls make good handles. Just drill a hole slightly smaller than the tang in the golf ball and jam the ball on the tang.
For smaller Three Square files a spent CO2 cartridge works great for a handle.
 
"It would seem to me that doing ANY grinding on a file would cause the temper to disapate in the file."

Your correct, up to a point. The file teeth right next to the grinding will loose their hardness.
I didn't go into the fine points of grinding the teeth off of a file.
Grinding produces a tremendous amount of heat, so the first and most important thing is to have a water quench right next to the grinder, and remove the teeth just a little at a time quenching often.
This is a time consuming process for a person without an industrial cooling system because of the small amounts of material that can be safely removed between quenches but it can be done.
(Industrial grinding machines pump hundreds of gallons per hour onto the grinding wheel and the part to prevent this overheating.)

Seems to me then if would be easier and less costly to just buy the correct file to start with :imo:
If i sprung say a grand for the gun parts or kit I should surely be able to afford another , say, 10 bucks for the right file. :results:

I have seen the type grinders you are talking about. most are for specific purpose like knives. chipper knives. planner knives, veneer slicer knives ect ect.

Woody
 
Jim: Thanks for the timely post. I just received a barrel that Bill Moody built for me. Super turn time. Two weeks from the time I sent him my barrel as a template to the time I got it. It needs some filing as well as another barrel I have and it been a long time since I have done anything like this. I was wondering how to proceed and providence or whatever sent your post. After the filing, I assume follow up with 400 sandpaper? Is it better to use wet or dry? Hank
 
Seems to me then if would be easier and less costly to just buy the correct file to start with :imo:
If i sprung say a grand for the gun parts or kit I should surely be able to afford another , say, 10 bucks for the right file. :results:
Sometimes You can't get or find a file with no teeth on the side that you don't need or want teeth on and you have to grind them off. :imo:The outline on grinding a file by Zonie will do the trick. Go slow and keep it cold.
Great thread Zonie. :thumbsup:
Lehigh....
 
Sometimes You can't get or find a file with no teeth on the side that you don't need or want teeth on and you have to grind them off. :imo:The outline on grinding a file by Zonie will do the trick. Go slow and keep it cold.
Great thread Zonie. :thumbsup:
Lehigh....

What lehigh says is true.

A file that comes to mind that is very uncommon but is of great service to a gunsmith is a triangular file with one "safe" surface.
This file is almost a necessity if your filing a dovetail into your barrel.
If you looked in the right place you could find one to buy, but IMO it is easier to just carefully make you own.

My thanks to you all for the compliments. I don't know that I deserve such high praise. :shocking:
 
Zonie, yes, thanks for the post. Old(er) farts like me got file training as youngsters (military too). I haven't used stone grinders in years (hard mounted ones anyway). Die grinders and side grinders get used in the shop but I built a belt grinder about 10 years ago and use it daily. I buy norton Norzon 100 grit by the box of 10 and go through couple boxes a year I guess. these belts will grind files in fairly good shape. Trick is to grind bare handed and don't get in a hurry. If Rich don't get your old files, ask a ferrier or a blacksmith and they may want them for hot files (not the 2nds or smooths though). I also might add that plain old muriatic from the Ace or True Value near you will "freshen" but not completely sharpen files. Makes them bite again. You should use TSP to neutralize afterwards and clean water to wash. Then compressed air (quickly) to dry, dry your hands good and hit the file with a good fresh new wire brush. Surprisingly, old files bought at a sale, buried in a box will be refreshed. Mileage will vary of course but you will be pleasantly surprised. Just FINDING the file you want can be a pain sometimes and you have to make do. You may have a special need. Tips and bottoms (up next to the tang) are the sharpest parts of files and are overlooked. If you need a special file you can bust off the tang part (leaving an inch or so of good sharp teeth) and mig a handle to the tang. You may only need a few strokes of this special file in a particular position (like the handle of a knife or mebbe to relieve a hammer so it won't hit the back of a lock). Round files can be busted and ground squared (face of the end) to be used like a mill (to clean out the hammer where the cap hits). I would seldom use new files for these applications. Usually 'nuff junked files laying around.
 
Nice lesson Zonie, but what about us one eyed guys that can't tell which end of the file is up, and therefore can't file straight? :cry:
 
Nice lesson Zonie, but what about us one eyed guys that can't tell which end of the file is up, and therefore can't file straight? :cry:

Slamfire, you aren't one of the people I was talking about when I said: "however there are many out there who decided that there are more girls in the Typing Class than there are in the Shop classes." are you? :: ::

Sounds like your off to a bad start when you say "can't tell which end of the file is up". The END doesn't go UP. The flat surface goes UP, the ENDS go towards you and away from you. :: ::

I sure hope you have a sense of humor. :shocking:

Seriously, filing, like all handcrafts, takes some practice to get "the feel".
Some people will never master it and some people will amaze themselves by finding that they have had the ability all along but just never tried it.

Anyone thinking of building a gun, whether from a kit or from selected components should go to a hardware store and buy a 10 inch mill file (with a handle) and a little block of steel or brass.
Take it home and file off the edges to make some nice chamfers. Use the files corners to file some grooves in the blocks edge. Take a big hammer and pound big dings into the blocks surface, then file it flat again.
Yes, this sounds dumb, but it may help you find out if you really want to get into building your gun.
Just remember, all of those little steel or brass filings will really Pi$$ off your significant other if you don't clean them up! :: :: :: :crackup:

If you find you don't like filing, you might glue the file and the little block to a board and put a picture frame around it. Hang it on your wall and tell visiters it is an art sculpture you bought in Paris. Go on to explain the damaged block represents the evil tyranny of government and the file represents mans efforts to overcome it. They'll be amazed!! ::
 
Wrong! One end or the other is always up. Makes life miserable when yore new sights don't quite fit the dovetail in yore barrel. When yore done, the front site leans one way, and the rear site leans t'other. Same thing happens when yore sawin' too. Once upon a time I could sharpen drill bits by eye, now I can't drill a hole normal to the surface. :cry:
 
Anyone thinking of building a gun, whether from a kit or from selected components should go to a hardware store and buy a 10 inch mill file (with a handle) and a little block of steel or brass.
Take it home and file off the edges to make some nice chamfers. Use the files corners to file some grooves in the blocks edge. Take a big hammer and pound big dings into the blocks surface, then file it flat again.
Yes, this sounds dumb, but it may help you find out if you really want to get into building your gun.

One of the exercises we did back in metalshop was taking a block cutoff, maybe 3" square by 3/4" wide and file the faces flat, then square it all with just a file. Once it was square- all those danged edges too, square to the faces, and to each other, it was time for the "advanced" work. File a 45* chamfer on the long edges of one face, but ghawd-help you if you lost that 90* square face/edge. Learned more about control and patience from that class than anywhere else.

I don't have the block anymore, but I still have the small square I made in that class.
 

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