Filler for oversized trigger guard inlet

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Not to throw the thread off subject, but here's a few pics of my soon to be pistol TG that I'm making out of sheet brass.

In the bottom two pics you can see the broken cast brass (not really brass....some kind of junk metal. It snapped like a string bean at the narrow point and had casting voids of 50% in that spot!).

Well, I can at least use it for a model to follow. The upper left pic shows where I wrapped the cut out shape of brass(annealed of course) around the hardwood "anvil" that I shaped from leftover maple. The upper right shows some rough cleanup of that piece.

The two lower pics show the "lollipop"which I will (using brass color silver solder) solder onto the main piece so it will look like the broken piece. Once I solder that lollipop on I'll bend it to be the front extension of the TG. Then once bent I'll solder on a tab to pin in the pistol.

The rear tail I have yet to make, but once I do that I'll brass solder it to the rear of the main piece.

Once all that's done I'll file\sand\polish it to my finish shape.

I know it's somewhat easier to buy a TG. But my recent experiences with cast brass have not been good. So, I'll just take the time to make one. Besides, then I can "brag" to my shooting buddies that I did it.

 

[wiscoaster]

Not to throw the thread off subject.....

Actually, I think it's interesting and instructive enough to be well worthy of its own thread.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Actually, I think it's interesting and instructive enough to be well worthy of its own thread.

I can do that. Full disclosure….I got most of the step by step process from a tutorial on ALR. Some of the steps I’ve modified as I didn’t think they were necessary.

 

[Old-Duckman]

You make a valid point. It wasn't until recently I "dove into" silver soldering. It wasn't really expensive to do this. I bought my supples from Rio Grande.

The materials I use are:
--Mapp gas torch. Pick this up at your local hardware. Amazon will ship you two for $38. You can use an existing propane screw on torch head
--8-feet Silver Solder 20ga. hard $19.
--Grifflux flux. $22. You have to have flux for Silver Solder or your wasting your time.
--Acetone. Clean all parts that are going to be soldered with Acetone....or again, you're wasting your time.

So, depending upon what you may already have, you could do this for under $60. Up to just over $100 if you don't have anything.

It's not all that difficult.....believe me....if I can do it, anyone can do it. And once you figure out how to silver solder, you will find other stuff that you will use this on.

Why would you recommend hard silver solder? I taught jewelry making and metal smithing for over 15 years, easy would be more than adequate and much easier (no pun intended) to use/flow. And a better color match to boot. The lower the melting temperature the less silver in it thus the lower melting temperature silver solder is more yellow than the harder grades.

 

[Dude]

Good discussion! I've done a lot of soldering, but no silver soldering. Keep posting - I want to know more.

 

[oreclan]

Yes, if a person has expertise and tools to do that. Not all kit builders do. Jim, honestly, often times I think your advice doesn't adequately take into account the differing levels of ability to execute the remedies you recommend. In this case, based on the questions asked by the OP, I think one has to assume some "beginner" level, and I don't think you did that in your response. The best method per your expertise and experience may not be best suited as best remedy for the beginner-level remedy to be applied to the OP's problem in need of remediation.

While the advice of the master builders present on the forum may be recognized and accepted as the best advice for addressing a given problem, it's been my observation that the best advice is not always the most suitable advice, if it's not advice the novice builder can execute, then it's not particularly helpful in being useful advice for that builder.

You shouldn't assume that a person is not capable of learning a skill to accomplish a task. Some new people just need a challenge to improve. The best solution to a problem should be recommended; it is up to the person asking for advice to either adopt or adapt some variation of that advice.
A challenge can be a good learning experience.

 

[oreclan]

You shouldn't assume that a person is not capable of learning a skill to accomplish a task. Some new people just need a challenge to improve. The best solution to a problem should be recommended; it is up to the person asking for advice to either adopt or adapt some variation of that advice.
A challenge can be a good learning experience.

I personally would inlet a matching piece of wood, file and sand it flush, and stain it to match .
I have done this successfully several times.

 

[wiscoaster]

You shouldn't assume that a person is not capable of learning a skill to accomplish a task. Some new people just need a challenge to improve. The best solution to a problem should be recommended; it is up to the person asking for advice to either adopt or adapt some variation of that advice.
A challenge can be a good learning experience.

I don't think I did assume that he wasn't capable, but point taken.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Why would you recommend hard silver solder? I taught jewelry making and metal smithing for over 15 years, easy would be more than adequate and much easier (no pun intended) to use/flow. And a better color match to boot. The lower the melting temperature the less silver in it thus the lower melting temperature silver solder is more yellow than the harder grades.

I've just started learning this silver solder stuff. Your experience and advice would be, could be much better than mine.

All I'm suggesting is if individuals are getting involved in gun making\fixing, doing this kind of task isn't has hard as it seems.

"Silver" solder comes in different grades depending upon the project\use. You can also get it in "flakes", "Paste", Stiff wire, etc.

I don't know what you mean by "easy". Are your speaking solder used in home projects that you buy at a hardware store? The chart below shows the different kinds of Silver solder...and this is by far not a complete list. For my TG I'm using the "Brass Wire" as it matches brass extremity well.

Again, I don't have your experience in this. I don't know what kind\type\melting point of solder you would recommend for this project. I'm just saying it's not as hard as a person might think. Jump in....take some metal scraps and give it a try. You may surprise yourself. Also....be careful and practice SAFTEY!! Eye protection and skin protection are a must! (Ask my elbow that accidentally touched a hot piece of brass!! I now have a permanent strawberry!!!) A bowl, dish of water beside the project will come in more than handy for quenching, or dumping on something very hot that fell where you didn't want it to.

And you can recommend what type of solder you are saying is "easy".

 

[Rebel bull]

I've just started learning this silver solder stuff. Your experience and advice would be, could be much better than mine.

All I'm suggesting is if individuals are getting involved in gun making\fixing, doing this kind of task isn't has hard as it seems.

"Silver" solder comes in different grades depending upon the project\use. You can also get it in "flakes", "Paste", Stiff wire, etc.

I don't know what you mean by "easy". Are your speaking solder used in home projects that you buy at a hardware store? The chart below shows the different kinds of Silver solder...and this is by far not a complete list. For my TG I'm using the "Brass Wire" as it matches brass extremity well.

Again, I don't have your experience in this. I don't know what kind\type\melting point of solder you would recommend for this project. I'm just saying it's not as hard as a person might think. Jump in....take some metal scraps and give it a try. You may surprise yourself. Also....be careful and practice SAFTEY!! Eye protection and skin protection are a must! (Ask my elbow that accidentally touched a hot piece of brass!! I now have a permanent strawberry!!!) A bowl, dish of water beside the project will come in more than handy for quenching, or dumping on something very hot that fell where you didn't want it to.

And you can recommend what type of solder you are saying is "easy".

View attachment 370693

please post your supplier info

 

[Old-Duckman]

I've just started learning this silver solder stuff. Your experience and advice would be, could be much better than mine.

All I'm suggesting is if individuals are getting involved in gun making\fixing, doing this kind of task isn't has hard as it seems.

"Silver" solder comes in different grades depending upon the project\use. You can also get it in "flakes", "Paste", Stiff wire, etc.

I don't know what you mean by "easy". Are your speaking solder used in home projects that you buy at a hardware store? The chart below shows the different kinds of Silver solder...and this is by far not a complete list. For my TG I'm using the "Brass Wire" as it matches brass extremity well.

Again, I don't have your experience in this. I don't know what kind\type\melting point of solder you would recommend for this project. I'm just saying it's not as hard as a person might think. Jump in....take some metal scraps and give it a try. You may surprise yourself. Also....be careful and practice SAFTEY!! Eye protection and skin protection are a must! (Ask my elbow that accidentally touched a hot piece of brass!! I now have a permanent strawberry!!!) A bowl, dish of water beside the project will come in more than handy for quenching, or dumping on something very hot that fell where you didn't want it to.

And you can recommend what type of solder you are saying is "easy".

View attachment 370693

Yes, silver solder comes in different alloys and from the highest melting temperature to the lowest are as follows, IT, hard, medium, easy and super easy. Most commonly one sticks with hard, medium and easy. I have IT but use it rarely. I don’t have nor have I ever used super easy. I buy all of my silver solder in wire form. If you read a lot of jewelry making books they suggest to buy it in sheet form. They then take sheers and make a series of cuts and another series 90 degrees to the first cuts thus coming up with little squares of solder called pallions. My method (and others vary, this is just the method that I found works best for me) using flush cutters I snip off a length of wire to a size that I think will be appropriate for the joint in question. I make several as I don’t want to have to stop mid job and cut more solder, they have a way of disappearing at times. Once I have these I put them on a charcoal block and melt them, they turn into little spheres. I use a titanium solder pick and dip it slightly into my jar of paste flux. I have previously put flux on the joint that I intend to solder. I heat up the piece until the flux gets clear, when the flux is clear it is sticky. With my pick I get one of the little beads of solder and place it on the joint. I put down my pick, switch the torch to my dominant hand and heat the piece until the solder flows. The stickiness of the now liquid flux helps hold the solder bead in place. If I have a larger joint to solder I will cut longer lengths of the wire and place it on the joint without turning it into a bead. In the rare case that I actually need a pallion I will forge the wire flat and snip off a few. When you place silver solder on a piece and flow it, it will leave what is called a ghost. (It doesn’t all flow away to nothing) I find that the little beads leave less evidence of a ghost than pallions do.

In most of my work I use hard (in one ring I made for a customer I had 21 solder joints all using hard silver solder) The are some jewelry making books that state that each successive joint requires a lower grade of solder. This is absurd, that would restrict you a four joint project. The reason that you can getaway with using the same grade of solder on multiple joints is that each time you flow the solder some of the lower melting alloys in the solder basically evaporate and that joint would require more heat to flow that same joint again. If the joint will sometime in the future require removal of one part from the other, then easy or super easy must be used, the higher grades bond more on a molecular level versus easy which can be thought of to be more like glue. I’m sure that someone versed in metallurgy could explain that more correctly but you get the point.

I haven’t done much work with brass but I can give you one tip relative to quenching it. Wait until there is no red (red from heat) before quenching, it has a tendency to crack if quenched while red. The same goes for sterling silver too.

For pickling after soldering most use a small crock pot. For pickle don’t waste your money buying it from a jewelry supply store. Get PH Down used for swimming pools. Both are sodium bisulfate and the swimming pool stuff is far less expensive!

Hope some of this helps, as you see I can get into “teaching mode” and tend to ramble on.

And finally, yes silver soldering can be intimidating, the first project in the majority of my classes was a bent/forged sterling silver ring. I wanted my students to have a baptism of fire if you will and thus get over the fear of the torch. The vast majority of them went home after that first class with a silver ring they had made and could be proud of. A confidence booster to be sure!

 

[Old-Duckman]

Oh, one more tip, make sure your solder is clean before using it. I use a scuff pad to clean my wire solder before cutting pieces of it off to use.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

please post your supplier info

https://www.riogrande.com

 

[Old-Duckman]

Regarding suppliers, I have used Rio for tools and supplies, among others. But for silver solder I was told by one of my mentors, the late great John Cogswell of New York, that each refiner has their own “recipe” for alloying silver solder. He suggested Hauser and Miller. When I bought solder I bought enough to last me for the rest of my life. That said I don’t know if Hauser and Miller are even in business anymore, worth a look though.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I would not use Titebond and sawdust in such a large void

Yeah, your right, I didn't see just how large it was!

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Regarding suppliers, I have used Rio for tools and supplies, among others. But for silver solder I was told by one of my mentors, the late great John Cogswell of New York, that each refiner has their own “recipe” for alloying silver solder. He suggested Hauser and Miller. When I bought solder I bought enough to last me for the rest of my life. That said I don’t know if Hauser and Miller are even in business anymore, worth a look though.

http://www.hauserandmiller.com

Closed

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

That looks like hell.

Maybe?
Merry Christmas!

 

[cjgregory]

Find a nice inlay that you can put in.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Never occurred to me to clean the solder.

Also, I’ve never pickled anything once done. I suppose because most, if not all of the piece has been filed or sanded down.

 

[Old-Duckman]

Never occurred to me to clean the solder.

Also, I’ve never pickled anything once done. I suppose because most, if not all of the piece has been filed or sanded down.

When we pickle sterling silver it removes the top layer of fire scale (cuprous oxide) and exposes a layer of fine silver but below that thin layer is a layer of cupric oxide, the silversmiths’s enemy!

But that has nothing to do with what you are doing, I click over into teaching mode very easily. I loved teaching.

Anyway pickling also dissolves the flux. Have you not found that the flux, after your piece has cooled, can be difficult to remove? You can use a hot water soak to get rid of the flux. Like I said, I haven’t worked much brass. I made a cigarette case out of brass for my brother years ago but I don’t remember what unique issues that I had with it if any. I do recall being taught about letting the red go away before quenching. That may have come from reloading and annealing your brass before resizing…don’t really recall where I picked that info up from.

But good luck with your project. We learn as we do.