Filling cylinders

[Sparkitoff]

I've been loading a '58 NMA and a '51 Navy both in .44 with a measure that is 27 grains. Good accuracy and no issues with either. I have recently read through some older BP and ML related books I have. In each, I found it interesting that they talk about filling the cylinders so the ball is in the mouth of the cylinder just enough to clear and allow full rotation. One just right out says fill with powder with enough room that the ball compresses it and sits just inside the cylinder. The other refers to putting the "right amount" of powder and using a wad or filler to take up room so the ball is "seated enough to allow full, unobstructed rotation".

Two questions:
Is it okay to put more powder to move the ball closer to the mouth?
Is there an advantage to using a wad and/or filler to move the ball forward?

I have about 1/4" in one revolver and between 1/8 and 3/16" on the other between the front of the cylinder and the tightly seated ball. Should I be taking up that space?

 

[mushka]

In the 1860 revolver I got recently I just use 20 grns of 3f bp and a wad over the powder and it is seated kind of deep. I'm not looking for power, just a good functional load to plink with.

 

[B P Arn]

I generally use enough powder that the ball just clears, or is 1/16" or so below the chamber.

For my two brass framed revolvers, I do shoot reduced loads to supposedly protect the soft frame from damage, but I don't really think that is necessary. When I use these reduced loads, I don't use a wad or filler of any kind; I just seat the ball firmly on top of the smaller powder charge, which puts the ball well below the mouth of the chamber. I tried wads and fillers, and they didn't seem to make any difference.

 

[rodwha]

Far too many claim their most accurate powder charge seems to be between 18-25 grns in a .44. And far too many claim it’s more accurate when the ball comes right up close to the mouth of the chambers. They tend to use some form of filler to make this happen.

I’m a hunter so I need/want something both accurate and humane so I started at 25 grns of 3F using an energetic powder. My NMA did best with 30 grns of Olde Eynsford. Next I will modify my bullet designs to fill the excess with lead. However it’s been shown that a bullet needs about 1/16” clearance from the chamber mouth to keep gas cutting from happening. I also further reduced that overall length by 1/16” to account for powder charge variance and another 1/16” if I choose to add cardboard cereal box overpowder cards.

 

[ord sgt]

A friend swears by his load of 20 grains FFFg, corn meal as a filler and a .454 roundball so the ball is at the mouth of the chamber for his Remington revolver. But he had the cylinder chambers all bored to the exact same size.
Me, my Pietta Colt shoots quite well with 15 grains FFFg, a lubed felt wad and a .451 roundball seated on the powder charge. I get good accuracy with this load.
Your choice as to what works best for you.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

All 5 of my 44's seem to do best with 30 grains 3f Old eyensford or red label regular ol' GOEX. 20 grains seems best in my 36 cal new model navy.


Also i occasionly run my stainless uberti new midel army at 35 grains 3f old eyensford.

I advise you to find which *useful* load groups best for you and use it. 30 grains of 3f has always been my go to load

 

[flntlokr]

I liked a 20 gr FFFg in my Ruger; filled the extra space with a bit of corn meal. Full loads are fun, but in my experience, not as accurate for target shooting. I found that the full loads also fouled up the action with about 24 shots

 

[M. De Land]

I've been loading a '58 NMA and a '51 Navy both in .44 with a measure that is 27 grains. Good accuracy and no issues with either. I have recently read through some older BP and ML related books I have. In each, I found it interesting that they talk about filling the cylinders so the ball is in the mouth of the cylinder just enough to clear and allow full rotation. One just right out says fill with powder with enough room that the ball compresses it and sits just inside the cylinder. The other refers to putting the "right amount" of powder and using a wad or filler to take up room so the ball is "seated enough to allow full, unobstructed rotation".

Two questions:
Is it okay to put more powder to move the ball closer to the mouth?
Is there an advantage to using a wad and/or filler to move the ball forward?

I have about 1/4" in one revolver and between 1/8 and 3/16" on the other between the front of the cylinder and the tightly seated ball. Should I be taking up that space?

You will find virtually all competitive shooters will either use a filler of some sort , usually cream of wheat instead of cornmeal because it will compress better and not be spongy, or they will cut off their cylinders and move the barrel back for about 20 grain charge with no filler that puts the ball right at the end of the chamber over the compressed powder.
I like a grease wad under the ball now as they lube more consistently, seem just as accurate and are less messy than was smearing grease over the top of the ball for 40 yearts . Some of us are slow learners !

 

[bang]

I loaded 10 cylinders. 5 with filler, 5 without. Over sealed ball. Mixed the cylinders so there was no way to know which had filler. Shot all 10 cylinders. Zero change in accuracy.
Put the powder in. Ram the ball. Seal and shoot.

 

[rafterob]

Yes you can fill the cylinder, which should be about 35 grains and then seat the ball on top. Many loading manuals for .44 Remingtons and Colts will list that as the maximum charge. I shot a few cylinder loads like that. Got a big boom! Went back to my best load which was 22 grains. I tried wads and fillers, nothing affected my accuracy so i stick with the .22 grain load and no filler. With a wad you can skip the lube over ball step which can get messy on hot days. But that is just more garbage to pick up at the range.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I use no wad but have before. I much prefer to use my 30 grains then ball then my possum grease i make out of some rendered bear fat and natural oils

 

[nhmoose]

With a wad you can skip the lube over ball step which can get messy on hot days. But that is just more garbage to pick up at the range.

You pick up the wads on your range? How do you find them?
Seriously you have to pick up wads at your range?

 

[smoothshooter]

I've been loading a '58 NMA and a '51 Navy both in .44 with a measure that is 27 grains. Good accuracy and no issues with either. I have recently read through some older BP and ML related books I have. In each, I found it interesting that they talk about filling the cylinders so the ball is in the mouth of the cylinder just enough to clear and allow full rotation. One just right out says fill with powder with enough room that the ball compresses it and sits just inside the cylinder. The other refers to putting the "right amount" of powder and using a wad or filler to take up room so the ball is "seated enough to allow full, unobstructed rotation".

Two questions:
Is it okay to put more powder to move the ball closer to the mouth?
Is there an advantage to using a wad and/or filler to move the ball forward?

I have about 1/4" in one revolver and between 1/8 and 3/16" on the other between the front of the cylinder and the tightly seated ball. Should I be taking up that space?

The “ chambers “ are the individual holes you put the powder in.
The “ cylinder “ is the big round thing that rotates and has the chambers bored in it.
Surprising so many people get the two confused.

 

[rafterob]

You pick up the wads on your range? How do you find them?
Seriously you have to pick up wads at your range?

Yes, in fact we had to stop shooting shotguns due to the amount of debris. The land owner fields cattle that sometimes get into the range area and any foreign matter can wreak havoc on their digestive systems. Pistol wads tend to end up as little fuzzy balls that are not hard to spot. We have to pick up all our patches. We are just very grateful for the use of this beautiful and perfectly situated range spot. We want to keep the owner happy!

 

[nhmoose]

All the clubs I have belonged to own the land the club and ranges are on. That really threw me a new thing I had never heard of Thanks.

Shotguns can make a mess but it rakes up with a York rake the wads and clay that has not yet disintegrated as most now use bio-degrading birds. Wads are however like for ever. I have seen some fellas picking up the wads to wash and reuse. They break jst as many birds as new ones due.

THe shot gets mined by a recovery company that pays the club to let them do it.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I use lube over the ball or a lubed wad at the range, but if I load and carry I load powder, card wad and ball with no lube. When carrying this, I am only going to use up to 5-shots and clean. Even if I empty on range I will just lube the next 5. I wonder if there is significant velocity change with either a few more grains of powder or a wad of some kind.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I use lube over the ball or a lubed wad at the range, but if I load and carry I load powder, card wad and ball with no lube. When carrying this, I am only going to use up to 5-shots and clean. Even if I empty on range I will just lube the next 5. I wonder if there is significant velocity change with either a few more grains of powder or a wad of some kind.

I like the way you think! I leave mine loaded sometimes way too long and theyve never misfired. "Knock on wood"My loading is powder, .454 ball home cast or hornady then home spun lube.

 

[M. De Land]

I use lube over the ball or a lubed wad at the range, but if I load and carry I load powder, card wad and ball with no lube. When carrying this, I am only going to use up to 5-shots and clean. Even if I empty on range I will just lube the next 5. I wonder if there is significant velocity change with either a few more grains of powder or a wad of some kind.

I don't care for the ever changing lube distribution after each discharge, when over ball lubing is used , along with the mess it makes. After the first shot most of the lube in the remaining chambers is blow out and smeared down your barrel under side. I even find it on my shooting glasses and spotting scope if the wind is right. Lubed wads pretty much eliminate all that and to this point seem every bit as accurate.
For long term carry there is no comparison as the powder is sealed up just as well and no grit gets into the lube.
I know the old saw about the ball pushing the wad into a cup shape while compressing the ball and load and not sealing the chamber mouth which just isn't true if an over size wad is used. It will perfectly seal off the chamber to moisture and chain fire potential.
I make my own wads cut from 1/8th inch felt and soaked in melted home made lube. They are about .005 larger than the chamber mouth before swelling up with melted lube which when used under a ball large enough to cut lead all the way around will seal off a chamber perfectly.

 

[wb78963]

Experimenting is the way to find out. Try your most accurate load with and with out filler and see if the extra step is worth the time. Or see if a different charge with filler is more accurate.
Since this shooter is not a tack driver my load is 20 grains of FFFg, a home made 1/8" lube wad and a .451" ball seated on the wad with a small amount of compression.
Accurate enough for the 15 yard 6" plate rack and may well be more accurate that I can see to shoot.
Make Smoke
Stay Safe
Bunk

 

[wb78963]

I don't care for the ever changing lube distribution after each discharge, when over ball lubing is used , along with the mess it makes. After the first shot most of the lube in the remaining chambers is blow out and smeared down your barrel under side. I even find it on my shooting glasses and spotting scope if the wind is right. Lubed wads pretty much eliminate all that and to this point seem every bit as accurate.
For long term carry there is no comparison as the powder is sealed up just as well and no grit gets into the lube.
I know the old saw about the ball pushing the wad into a cup shape while compressing the ball and load and not sealing the chamber mouth which just isn't true if an over size wad is used. It will perfectly seal off the chamber to moisture and chain fire potential.
I make my own wads cut from 1/8th inch felt and soaked in melted home made lube. They are about .005 larger than the chamber mouth before swelling up with melted lube which when used under a ball large enough to cut lead all the way around will seal off a chamber perfectly.

M. De Land Sir,
You have hit the nail on the head exactly and I have preached lube must be UNDER the ball to work for as long as I can remember. Crisco or what ever concoction you use OVER the ball is blown away by the first shot.
Thank you sir for good advise to new and old shooters
Respectfully
Bunk