Finish for Stock, Barrel of Lyman Great Plains Kit

[LFC]

I'm thinking of getting a Lyman Great Plains Rifle kit (in flint), as a first flint kit. (Built a CVA Hawken caplock from a kit a couple of decades ago--wasn't pretty, but it goes "bang".) I don't know anything about how the Lyman kits come; I figure I'm going to need some kind of finish for the wood and the barrel. If it's feasible, I'd be interested in making the finished gun look as "period correct" as possible, at least to the degree of making it brown if the old Hawkens were brown, or blue if they were more ordinarily blue--but I'm willing to cheat and use, say, cold blue rather than funny toxic hard-to-get chemicals if the end result will look and behave roughly the same. Intention is to have a user piece that I can also use for wall-hanging.

What's the best way to go about this? What do I use for stain and finish for the stock? And is there some kind of good browning compound for the barrel and other furniture? Where can this be gotten most readily and cheaply?

Thanks!

 

[Zonie]

First, be prepared to hear that the Lyman GPR is not a very good representation of a true Hawken, but it is about as close as currently available guns.
Also be prepared to hear that Flintlocks were not found on the Hawken Half Stock rifles.

Now that we've got thru that, as far as stains go, I would hold off on buying any stain right now.
The stock is Walnut and Walnut usually doesn't require any staining at all.
When you get your kit, take the stock outside into the bright sunlight along with a wet washrag. Dampen the wood and look at it's color and figure (if any). While the wood is wet, it will look exactly like it would if you were to just apply a finishing oil without staining at all.
By the way, do this again after you've sanded the stock and it's ready to finish. Sometimes removing some wood will change the color.

If you do decide to stain it because it is too light, use a alcohol or water based stain. I like Birchwood Casey Walnut.
I do not recommend using any of the oil based stains like Minwax.

I believe some of the Hawkens rifles furniture was color case hardened however browning was popular during that period especially for the barrel.
Very few (if any) of the Hawkens were blued.

If you choose to brown your steel parts, I would suggest using "Laurel Mountain Barrel Brown and Degreaser" . It requires humidity to work, and you must follow the instructions exactly but that's pretty easy to do.
It will create a non glossy brown finish which is very durable and historically correct.

To finish the wood you can use Boiled Linseed Oil, Tung Oil or Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil, hand rubbed into the wood. Any of them will look as good or much better than the Factory finished guns.

zonie

 

[dry ball john]

:thumbsup: I and my shooting pard put a Lyman GPR together last year and here is the way we done it. The stock will require re-shaping to the hawken profile,cheek piece and thinning. this wood is Very hard so will need elbow grease. we browned all parts with Laurel Mountain browning. The finish stain was brown shoe dye thinned to desired color followed up with 4 coats of tru oil.
Finished produce came out just FINE Cheers D.B.J.

 

[Old40Rod]

Zonie said it all... I guess that's why he is paid the big bucks to moderate :grin:

My GPR kit stock was plenty dark without any stain. I used a BLO/spar varnish mix for a finish. It gave the stock a nice rich non-gloss glow and is easy to fix nicks. I've seen a few GPRs a bit lighter than my stock, but not many. Zonie's water test will be the easiest way to see what you have.

Do a search in the forum, there are lots of pictures of finished GPRs and info on their finish, so that should give you some ideas also.

Post some pics when you are done!

 

[AeroncaTAL]

I think that you are going to thoroughly enjoy building your GPR. If I was to suggest anything, it would be to relieve the stock somewhat, especially around the cheekpiece. The cheekpiece on the Lyman stock is pretty massive and doesn't look anything like a Hawken. You have plenty of wood to work with there. There are any number of ways to finish the wood and metal. I used Boiled Linseed Oil on my stock and a rubbed out blue/gray finish on the metal. Here's a link to my GPR build when I finished it just about a year ago. Good luck, ask questions and post pics.

Scott

Lyman in Gray

 

[cowpoke1955]

I agree with zonie. I browned my metal with LMF from Track of the Wolf. It's very easy to use. My stock was a beautiful piece of walnut and required no stain. I rubbed in six coats of boiled lenseed oil I bought at Lowes. I think my .54 GPR flinter looks great. Don't worry about your rifle being a flintlock. There were several makers of plains/mountain rifles who did use a flintlock. The Hawkens brothers were not the only rifle makers. Remember, Lyman calls their rifle a Great Plains Rifle, not a Hawkens. The GPR is a good solid and accruate rifle. Build yourself a rifle to be proud of and have fun :thumbsup: .

 

[BrownBear]

Yup. Make it look the way YOU want it to look and ignore the torpedos. I did some custom stock work on mine that has no historical foundation, but it's the way I would have wanted it to look if I'd been around in time to meet the Hawken brothers face to face and place a custom order. Accurate as sin, too.

 

[LFC]

Okay--so Laurel Mtn. is the stuff for browning barrels. Before I commit (and I'm still deciding), what's involved in using that stuff? Do you just wipe it onto a degreased surface, like cold blue? Do you heat it?

I'm still comparing the cost of a kit to the cost of a pre-built gun. I'd love the opportunity to brown the barrel instead of blue it, and also maybe take some of the sharp edge off the buttplate before finishing the steel. On the other hand, now that I add to the cost of the kit the cost of browning compound, of all the extra screws I'm going to have to get at Home Depot to replace the unusable ones that come with the kit, and (especially) the months of weekends it's going to take to get this thing assembled--and, most of all, the foreseeable complaints from my wife as she sees me spend an hour or more (!) at the kitchen table assembling a kit, when I could be doing maintenance around the house--I may be best off just ordering the preassembled gun. That way I could also take it out and shoot it before January. But--pardon the rabbit trail--I'm interested in knowing what's involved in using the browning process.

Come to think of it, if I want to brown the metalwork, is there anything wrong with just buying the preassembled rifle, taking off the existing bluing with some chemical (would naval jelly work?), maybe rounding off some of the sharp edges, as on the buttplate, then browning it? It'd end up costing more than the preassembled gun, but at least it'd take half a Saturday instead of half a year.

 

[Black Hand]

It'd end up costing more than the preassembled gun, but at least it'd take half a Saturday instead of half a year.

Why not buy the pre-assembled one and spend $20-30 for stripper, sandpaper, naval jelly and browning solution. This way it is shootable right out of the box, and you can do the rest at your own leisure......

 

[LFC]

Exactly what I'm now thinking, BH. Three questions: (1) what's involved in the browning process (if I use Laurel Mountain)? (2) What's the expense for that stuff? (3) Is naval jelly the stuff to use to remove the old bluing beforehand?

Question 4, I guess I should ask: any reason not to do this--buy the preassembled gun, and then brown it?

Thanks!

 

[BrownBear]

To use LMF browning, it's important to get the humidity up and keep a constant temp. PC aside, your crockpot full of water in an enclosed shower stall works just right.

The browning "takes" best if the surfaces aren't too smooth. Sanding with 220 grit provides just about the right texture, but be careful not to round any edges that shouldn't be rounded.

You basically wipe the stuff on, let the parts hang in the warm humid air for a prescribed period, pull it out, wipe more on and hang it again. Repeat till it's like you want it, the # of repeats depending also on humidity. All is explained in the simple instructions.

As for refinishing a prebuilt, that's what I plan to do. I'm a lefty, but the GPR flinter isn't available in a lefty kit. Since I plan to whack a bunch of wood off the stock and brown the metal, no prob starting with a prebuilt. I liked my inletting job on the one I built from a kit better than that on my factory GPR, but factory inletting is fine enough.

Edit- Forgot to answer your ? on naval jelly. It's great for removing the bluing, as well as the case coloring if you don't want that on the lock. But after using it you will still need to sand to get the texture right for browning. I wrapped sandpaper around a file and used that for "draw filing" the flats on the barrel rather than trying to keep from rounding the edges while sanding by hand.

 

[LFC]

Thanks, BB. How long a period are we talking, letting the barrel hang in the humidity?

I ask, because I live in the desert, and humidity is a little tricky to come by. Are we talking an hour, or a day, or a week, or 5 minutes . . . . ?

 

[BrownBear]

As I recall, the first app of LMF calls for 6 or 8 hours of hang, with subsequent hangs going 12 hours. Use the shower stall and crockpot, or build an upright plywood box tall enough for your barrel plus the crockpot. My rifle took 5 treatments to get the brown I wanted.

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks, BB. How long a period are we talking, letting the barrel hang in the humidity?

I ask, because I live in the desert, and humidity is a little tricky to come by. Are we talking an hour, or a day, or a week, or 5 minutes . . . . ?

For the cold brown I use, I hung the parts in my shower and did the browning there. No need for additional moisture other than what was naturally produced during showering. It took 2-3 days of carding and re-application of the browning solution. The last barrel I browned, I hung it in my garage. NO additional moisture was provided, and it is pretty dry in Montana right now. It also browned in 2-3 days. Sometimes the additional moisture seems to cause more trouble than its worth.

Another option would be to use "Plum Brown" from the gun store (~$8). You strip off the bluing with naval jelly (takes a few hours), wash, heat and apply to the depth of color you want. Rinse, oil and you are done. This is what I did on my Cabelas Hawken. Turned out fine.

Just depends on how much time and money you want to spend on the project.....

 

[nvbirdman]

Question number four was "Any reason not to buy the pre-assembled gun and just brown the barrell?"
This was answered for me the first time someone at the range saw my kit-built GPR and asked "You built that?"

 

[Zonie]

If I may throw in my comment about Birchwood Caseys Plum Brown:

This is fairly fast, but not without its problems.

To work properly, the metal has to be absolutely free of oil including the oil on your skin. It then has to be heated to 255-295 degrees F before the PB is applied. This must be done outdoors as it gives off some really bad smelling fumes.

Heating the barrel isn't real easy with a propane torch because it is very easy to overheat or underheat the metal. If it is overheated, it will splatter and form a blotchy look. If it is underheated it will lay down a layer of copper which stops all browning until it is sanded off.

It usually takes at least 3 applications to get an even color and it must be washed off with water after each coating (dry with paper towels) before applying the next coat.
You can figure at least 2-3 hours of time spent just browning the barrel.

I've used it on many guns and they all came out looking pretty good but the looks of the LMF browning is so much more even I have switched to using it for browning any large item like a barrel.

I still do use PB to brown lockplates, buttplates and trigger guards where the heating, applying, washing and reheating are easy to do because it is fast and the sometimes uneven color are not noticable.

zonie

 

[tg]

I would toss in my vote for the LMF browning, amd re-dpoing a redybuilt is a god way to go, and the LGP is a good choice they shoot good and are quite similar to some of the plains rifles of the late RMFT era and a flinter would not be out of line on a gun made in the early '40s probably not the most common choice by then, but certainly acceptable, the LGP is not intended to be a "Hawken" so the Hawken Docums don't really apply.