First Flinter?

[Coueswhitetail]

Well, after having owned a percussion hawken for a while I'm wanting to branch out into flintlock long rifles. What should I get? I'd prefer not to spend a crazy amount of money, but definitely don't want to be pulling my hair out at the range. I've been looking at the track of the wolf kits but that seems well above my skill grade. Where can I get pre-made rifles based off of these kits or something similar?

 

[Hatchet-Jack]

Kibler!

 

[Coueswhitetail]

I like the look of the southern mountain rifle, but what's with the $200 billed seperately bit? Am I to understand that it's $1,075 rather than $875?

 

[deermanok]

They charge separately for the lock. It's not included in the kit.

 

[Grenadier1758]

And with a flint lock rifle, enjoyment is all about the quality of the lock. Jim Kibler's lock is very good.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Sad fact is there aren't any good quality Flintlock rifles, that aren't going to cost a lot of money new these days. I long for the "good old days" when people could afford to get into this game we play. When I started shooting black powder it was because it was about 1/4 the cost of modern.

 

[Sidney Smith]

This seriously must be a paid Kibler promotion website. Why is it every single person who posts about wanting their first flintlock, is suddenly steered toward Kibler kits? Again I'll say it, I'm not knocking Kiblers in any way, but it makes me wonder why people are so quick to offer up a thousand dollar plus kit to a newbie. The man said he doesn't want to spend a crazy amount of money. Now when I hear that, I'm hearing "I don't want to spend a grand, plus on a flintlock". Maybe a Lyman GPR, or a Pedersoli rifle may be a better choice. I'm just saying.

It's real easy to offer up something to someone when it isn't you spending the money.

 

[EC121]

There are any number of decent used rifles(no assembly required) around, but without a budget figure it is hard to recommend one.
For a first kit Kibler kits are the easiest to assemble(I won't say build.). It depends on the degree of challenge and style the buyer is looking for. Most kits(other than the questionable pre-inlet stock.) are just parts put together by the seller and called a kit.
I've never owned a production gun, but folks say there are some decent ones out there.
As our local furniture store ads say "Buy nice and you won't buy twice."

 

[Coueswhitetail]

I appreciate all the advice. That kibler is starting to grow on me. It looks pretty labor intensive to my skillset though. Am I mistaken in noticing that it appears in addition to finishing the edges of the metal, I need to do some inletting for the lock and barrel? Not to mention drilling screw holes? As to caliber, how capable is .45 at getting out there? I already have a .50 for hunting the big stuff, this one would be more for just plinking but I like to reach out as far as I can. I notice the southern mtn rifle only gets as big as .45, will that hurt long range capability?

 

[Osseon]

This seriously must be a paid Kibler promotion website. Why is it every single person who posts about wanting their first flintlock, is suddenly steered toward Kibler kits? Again I'll say it, I'm not knocking Kiblers in any way, but it makes me wonder why people are so quick to offer up a thousand dollar plus kit to a newbie. The man said he doesn't want to spend a crazy amount of money. Now when I hear that, I'm hearing "I don't want to spend a grand, plus on a flintlock". Maybe a Lyman GPR, or a Pedersoli rifle may be a better choice. I'm just saying.

It's real easy to offer up something to someone when it isn't you spending the money.

Because the alternative is a $650 Indian ready made rifle, a $600 rifle kit from Traditions that takes some know how, or something close to $1000 with caveats.
I got a $650 blunderbuss from Veteran arms. I can tell you this thing is pretty cheaply made. Its 100% functional, but the lock has an insane trigger pull and the lock seems to eat my flints a bit. I wouldn't even know where to begin on historical accuracy.

You can go get a rifle for like $800, but now you are also getting a factory made thing with questionable design decisions.
Now you are in the $1000 territory, you are looking at Pedersoli tier of rifles. These are well made and you can't really go wrong on them based on what I've heard around here. Except they are still not 100% on the history bit.

So if you are going to spend $1000 on a rifle, why no go for a Kibler rifle, which is pretty dang accurate to rifles of the time, they don't have any quality control issues, and if they did Kibler will take care of it. He is a friendly guy, and the kits are like 95% of the work being complete, so its easy for new kit builders. Its pretty cheap to have someone assemble it for you as well.

I have fired one myself and I immediately asked where I can go to buy one, it was a night and day difference from my $650 gun, and for $400 more you are getting a huge uptick in quality.

 

[Osseon]

I appreciate all the advice. That kibler is starting to grow on me. It looks pretty labor intensive to my skillset though. Am I mistaken in noticing that it appears in addition to finishing the edges of the metal, I need to do some inletting for the lock and barrel? Not to mention drilling screw holes? As to caliber, how capable is .45 at getting out there? I already have a .50 for hunting the big stuff, this one would be more for just plinking but I like to reach out as far as I can. I notice the southern mtn rifle only gets as big as .45, will that hurt long range capability?

Refer to this topic about it, Dave Person built me a Kibler and goes into detail about the work involved (there wasn't much):

Kibler Kit Assembly

 

[Sidney Smith]

You can't tell me a Lyman GPR is close to 1k. No way. Traditions guns are in the $450-$500 range, the kits are less than that. Indian? I'd never recommend Indian made anything to anyone. There's also the used gun market where I'm sure deals can be had for much less than a grand.

 

[Osseon]

You can't tell me a Lyman GPR is close to 1k. No way. Traditions guns are in the $450-$500 range, the kits are less than that. Indian? I'd never recommend Indian made anything to anyone. There's also the used gun market where I'm sure deals can be had for much less than a grand.

Umm
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/lyma...signaure-series-50-cal-flintlock-6034002.html
Also I literally said the issues with Indian and traditions firearms haha.

 

[Sidney Smith]

And what is the signature series vs a regular run of the mill GPR?

 

[Grenadier1758]

The run of the mill GPR made by Investarms for Lyman has been superseded by the Lyman Signature series manufactured by Pedersoli. There may still be a few Lyman GPR by Investarms on someone's shelves. So the difference is the Signature series is available and the regular run of the mill Lyman GPR, probably hard to find.

 

[bigstick6017555]

And what is the signature series vs a regular run of the mill GPR?

As sales pitch and more money

 

[Osseon]

The run of the mill GPR made by Investarms for Lyman has been superseded by the Lyman Signature series manufactured by Pedersoli. There may still be a few Lyman GPR by Investarms on someone's shelves. So the difference is the Signature series is available and the regular run of the mill Lyman GPR, probably hard to find.

Yes, and after the pandemic no one should expect prices to be what they were anymore. Cost of material and shortages etc.
It's amazing kibler hasn't increased his price anymore.

 

[EC121]

I like the look of the southern mountain rifle, but what's with the $200 billed seperately bit? Am I to understand that it's $1,075 rather than $875?

They bill the locks separately to avoid paying the manufacturers tax. Chambers does the same thing by billing separately for the barrel.

 

[Daveboone]

I bought the new Signature Series GPR for my first flinter, and paid about 860. It certainly is a considerable step up from the old Lyman GPR, which i own in percussion. The new version has much better fit and finish, and a much heavier bbl, which is fine for target shooting, but I anticipate will be tiring for hunting. I also have a Kibler kit I am slowly working on. Although reputed to be one of the most complete and simplist builds, there is ALOT of fine detail fit and finishing...which I am happy with, but some folks arent expecting. Along with the cost of the kit, you will have added expenses of what ever finishing supplies you may need and undoubtedly be needing to purchase assorted files, etc, for alot of folks...me included, that meant a decent woodworking vice which added about 150.00. A Signature GPR will get you shooting for a significant savings over even a Kibler kit, with a very nicely finished arm with a very good lock ready to go.

 

[Woody Morgan]

My first flinter and muzzleloader in general early this year was a Traditions Deerhunter. You guys can say all you want about how someone must spend in excess of $800 to get started "properly" but I don't agree with that in the least.
The Deerhunter is a solid rifle for less than $400. Yeah yeah. It's not period correct in the least as mine even has a synth stock and Cerakoted barrel but it works, is accurate and has taught me a lot about shooting flintlocks without spending anywhere near what you guys are talking about. This thread is about a first flint gun. Help him learn how to learn a flint gun inexpensively at the start. Gotta walk before you run.

wm