First French Scalper attempt

[Birddog1911]

That's a beauty. I might not like the style of not having a full tang, but your work is very well done.

 

[Dan99]

That's a beauty. I might not like the style of not having a full tang, but your work is very well done.

Thank you! For this one I was following design of the time as close as possible, lol.
If you want this in a full tang let me know…
Again thank you for the compliment!

 

[Birddog1911]

Yeah Dan, I figured that was the case. And I might just take you up on that!

 

[Dan99]

Which sheath would be best for this knife? Center seam?

 

[MLZ]

Beautiful knife. Great job, Dan.

 

[user 48679]

Impeccable work !

 

[Dan99]

Beautiful knife. Great job, Dan.

Thank you

 

[Brokennock]

Which sheath would be best for this knife? Center seam?

Yup.

Pics of the rehandle job I did that we discussed elsewhere and the centerseam sheath I made for it.
I basically just follow the method/instruction Steve Davis gives on his YouTube video about making these.

 

[Brokennock]

Yes. Mistakes were made on rehandle job. Your handle is much better done. My scales should have come forward past the heal of the blade a fraction of an inch. And, I should have been less stubborn and lazy and should have cut the tang to half amd worked a larger piece of wood to the right size and shape.

 

[Rod Man]

Yep, Good Job Sir!

RM

 

[Dan99]

Yes. Mistakes were made on rehandle job. Your handle is much better done. My scales should have come forward past the heal of the blade a fraction of an inch. And, I should have been less stubborn and lazy and should have cut the tang to half amd worked a larger piece of wood to the right size and shape.

It looks great! Remember there’s pros and cons to everything…if you cut off tang and later the handle split when using it, you could have cut off a finger and lost your hand modeling career lol
Also, thank you for posting pictures of your sheath and for mentioning video, that will be my next mission

 

[Jaeger]

Nice work! From what I can see it's a pretty accurate impression of a knife from the 18th Century.

 

[Dan99]

Nice work! From what I can see it's a pretty accurate impression of a knife from the 18th Century.

Thank you

 

[LRB]

I’ll take Critique. I’d rather improve what I’m making

The common French trade boucheron knife blade would have a noticeable rounded heel, a moderate dropped point, be about 1/8" thick, distal tapered, two 1/8" iron pins in the grip, roughly 1 1/16"apart, a tapered half tang. Some would have two piece grip slabs with a third pin near the rear even though only half tanged. The grip would be slightly past the lineup of the heel at the front. According to Ken Hamilton, one of the most knowledgeable researchers on French trade goods, there would be no obvious gap in the grips' underside as the English commonly had. The grips were dressed to the tang width. These knives were simple, but not pieces of junk. 5160 steel is OK. 1084 will retain an edge better.

 

[Dan99]

Dan, that’s a beautiful knife! I would consider it more of an English style, but as an English scalper, it is very nicely done.

I believe knives of this type would typically have a 6”-7” blade, giving a total length around 10”-11” or a trifle more, so this knife is a little smaller than would be typical. The way the flats taper on the handle is a little unusual, too, from an historical perspective, but the appearance is beautiful. I saw a Scandinavian knife once that had very similar handle geometry. It was gorgeous.

Your choice of materials, the grinding, and the overall fit and finish are impeccable. While we might nit-pick some of the historic details, as above, I would say they are relatively minor. It is a beautiful knife, and shows sincere effort toward historic re-creation. It also shows a lot of courage on your part to submit it to this crowd for criticism!

You go, Dan!

Notchy Bob

Here’s what I was looking at when making the knife. Diamond shape at back of handle. And why I was thinking it was French Scalper

 

[Notchy Bob]

Was it this, from The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook?



I see now why you called your knife a "French Scalper." That is confusing! I am pretty sure the English traders referenced above would have been stocking English-made knives, and I don't know why they would have been listed as "French scalpers." I am not really up to speed on early French knives, but I understand they had a variety of them. The type best known to most of us is the boucheron, or woodsman's knife. Wick Ellerbe (LRB in a previous post) gave you a very good, brief summary of the typical boucheron design in post #34. This is one of Wick's French knives from his website. I have one that looks exactly like it:



You also see references to a couteau, sometimes spelled phonetically as "cuttoe" in the period literature, but this is a generic French word for "knife." I went back through The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook, and the author really gave French knives short shrift. In any event. the scalper shown in the sketchbook page above was made by Hiram Cutler, of Sheffield. I'm pretty sure this is the same knife, from a book by Jim Gordon:



The actual cross section of the handle is not altogether clear. The wood has also shrunk considerably over the past 180+ years.

This illustration by Steve Allely may help some, with regard to the handle shape:


The handle tapers from butt to hilt, but maintains the diamond shape all the way. The three pins go right through the center of the ridge.

This old English scalper is in the collections of the Minnesota Historical Society:


The blade shows a lot of wear and evidence of resharpening, and I am positive the wire wrapping was a later addition. However, the handle is surprisingly intact. The description that accompanies this knife says, in part, "The scales are wood secured to the half tang by three iron pins. Each scale is triangular in cross section producing a hilt that is diamond shaped in cross section. The pommel is abrupt and flat. The hilt expands slightly from front to back." I interpret this to mean the handle is diamond-shaped for its full length. Another thing is that these English scalping knives typically had slotted, one-piece handles. The description of this knife indicates the handle is made of two scales. I'm wondering if that might be an error... Maybe the original handle split and made it look like two scales. I see three pins in the forward half of the handle, and no pins nearer the butt.

This one is in the McCord Museum, in Canada. They have recently upgraded their website and I don't find this image in their digital collection now, but I believe they said the handle is of wood. It looks more like jigged bone or horn to me, but it appears to have the same diamond-shaped cross section:



Anyway, I see now where the French designation for your scalper came from. We can blame Dr. Hanson! None of this changes the fact that you built a fine knife that any one of us would be glad to carry and use. Your next one will be even better.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Brokennock]

I'm not sure if this pdf file will attach correctly or not.

 

[Bushfire]

I spoke with Ken Hamilton very recently, new archaeological evidence suggests that two scale and 3 pin designs were the more prominent.

The article Brokennock referenced is probably your best offering short of speaking directly with Ken.

I'm in the process of having a boucheron made for me based off extant archaeological examples. 5 pouce type B blade with 2 scales and 3 pins. Boxwood of course.

 

[Dan99]

Was it this, from The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook?

View attachment 167521

I see now why you called your knife a "French Scalper." That is confusing! I am pretty sure the English traders referenced above would have been stocking English-made knives, and I don't know why they would have been listed as "French scalpers." I am not really up to speed on early French knives, but I understand they had a variety of them. The type best known to most of us is the boucheron, or woodsman's knife. Wick Ellerbe (LRB in a previous post) gave you a very good, brief summary of the typical boucheron design in post #34. This is one of Wick's French knives from his website. I have one that looks exactly like it:

View attachment 167531

You also see references to a couteau, sometimes spelled phonetically as "cuttoe" in the period literature, but this is a generic French word for "knife." I went back through The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook, and the author really gave French knives short shrift. In any event. the scalper shown in the sketchbook page above was made by Hiram Cutler, of Sheffield. I'm pretty sure this is the same knife, from a book by Jim Gordon:

View attachment 167523

The actual cross section of the handle is not altogether clear. The wood has also shrunk considerably over the past 180+ years.

This illustration by Steve Allely may help some, with regard to the handle shape:

View attachment 167522
The handle tapers from butt to hilt, but maintains the diamond shape all the way. The three pins go right through the center of the ridge.

This old English scalper is in the collections of the Minnesota Historical Society:

View attachment 167527
The blade shows a lot of wear and evidence of resharpening, and I am positive the wire wrapping was a later addition. However, the handle is surprisingly intact. The description that accompanies this knife says, in part, "The scales are wood secured to the half tang by three iron pins. Each scale is triangular in cross section producing a hilt that is diamond shaped in cross section. The pommel is abrupt and flat. The hilt expands slightly from front to back." I interpret this to mean the handle is diamond-shaped for its full length. Another thing is that these English scalping knives typically had slotted, one-piece handles. The description of this knife indicates the handle is made of two scales. I'm wondering if that might be an error... Maybe the original handle split and made it look like two scales. I see three pins in the forward half of the handle, and no pins nearer the butt.

This one is in the McCord Museum, in Canada. They have recently upgraded their website and I don't find this image in their digital collection now, but I believe they said the handle is of wood. It looks more like jigged bone or horn to me, but it appears to have the same diamond-shaped cross section:

View attachment 167528

Anyway, I see now where the French designation for your scalper came from. We can blame Dr. Hanson! None of this changes the fact that you built a fine knife that any one of us would be glad to carry and use. Your next one will be even better.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Yes, that’s an actual photo of the knife in the book. Very cool! Now I can see the Diamond shape though the whole handle and in the picture below that. Thank you again for sharing the information you have.

 

[Dan99]

View attachment 167533

I'm not sure if this pdf file will attach correctly or not.

Yes, I can open it. Thank you. Everyone has been incredibly helpful sharing information! I really appreciate the help.