First muzzleloader advice

[Okie Hog]

We "hunt" our way to 75 if possible and shoot at 100 if we must. We practise so we hit where we aim at the distance the gun was intended to reliable take game.

i prefer to hunt my way to 50 yards. Will shoot at 75 yards if conditions are near perfect.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

I am left handed, so my options are rougher than right handed folks.

50 cal is just fine. I hunt with a 54 myself. Mainly because it was a great deal at the time. I hunt with a lyman GPR flintlock in 54.

Do you need this gun in time for hunting season this year?

Keep your eyes peeled on gunbroker, armslist, this forum, american longrifles forum, and contact a local blackpowder club. Every state has a muzzleloading assosciation with classifieds. Don't be afraid to talk or email to their president about your interests. Local shoots too.

If you're dead set on something real nice, cash out $250 or so for a used thompson center or lyman and have fun with it. Then, wait and save. When you upgrade, pass it on....

Far as casting goes, you could always cast a few bullets when you go camping.

local general gun shops do not have .54 balls often. You just see 50, maybe 45 too.

Far as caliber choice. I go with 54 or 45. 45 saves on lead n powder, but use the 54 when hunting. The 45's can hunt, but are used as back-ups, or in ideal areas. Like stand hunting with the area known well for branches and deer travel routes. Nothing wrong with 50 either. Just haven't found one I liked yet....

 

[Danny Ross]

Okay I am going to add my two cents worth to this conversation. I have both 50 and 54 cal guns. There is only a 2-3 dollar difference in price, for a box of production round balls, between the two calibers. So cost to shoot should not be an issue when deciding between the two calibers. It is going to take you a while to shoot 100 round balls. A 54cal round ball is closer to the weight of the bullet coming out of a inline (and making a bigger hole), than a 50cal round ball. Powder charges between the two calibers can be similar, so you really aren't shooting any more powder. If you are looking at shooting conical bullets you will be shooting a MUCH MORE expensive load compared to a patched round ball in either caliber. Any gun you get, you will have to work up a load of powder, ball size, lube, and patch thickness for THAT gun for best accuracy. In reality it is just like working up a custom load for that lever action you have. I don't know the laws in the state where you live (some restrict scopes), but on a side lock (especially a custom gun) you will be shooting open sights. Patched round ball you will only be shooting 100yds to 120yds max (it is not a 200yd load). Not that you can't put a scope on, but most don't. If you ever plan on hunting larger game like Elk or Moose, and you only want to buy ONE gun, a 54 would be a better choice. There are those on here though that have done it with a 50cal round ball. IF you only plan to hunt deer size game either caliber will work. As far as weight of the gun goes, there is a little difference, but not that you would notice carrying the gun all day, the 54 being a little lighter. If buying a custom a Swamped barrel would make either caliber gun much lighter to carry in a full stocked gun. "To me" the difference in recoil between the two calibers is insignificant . Any shop that sells round balls will generally carry them up through 54cal, cost to shoot is relatively insignificant between the two, so don't let those factors make your choice. When I bought my first side lock I went with 50cal thinking that was THE caliber, and like you it was the caliber I was introduced to. I also thought pieces parts would be easier to find, because inlines were "50cal". Well 54cal pieces part are just as easy to find. So this is from someone who has been where you are at and found out differently. DANNY

 

[Danny Ross]

I should say that is 100yds to 120yds max for hunting. DANNY

 

[timothy prouty]

Try a cva mountain rifle in a45or50cal you can't go wrong with that rifle and you can get your cousin to cast some bullets for you and those rifles are tack drivers

 

[cynthialee]

Hell of a deal...I just noticed you are in Eugene Oregon.
I lived there for about 5 years and my brother raised his kids there until his daughter hit 15 and they moved North.

Surprised to even hear of a shooter hailing out of Eugene.

I had to run away from that place. I may vote liberal as a general rule, but them folks take left wing to a weird place.

Eugene is a great place as far as the map goes. There are many great hunting areas in the state and Eugene is pretty well located for getting to them. Back when we lived in Oregon my brother and I would go hunting deer and porcupine. The females ain't bad eating if prepared right. But I have never found a male porcupine that was digestible by man or beast. Even the dogs refused to eat the males.

 

[hanshi]

I really like the .54 for hunting and have taken deer with mine. I've only owned (and still own) one (1) rifle in that caliber; and it's a doozy. It's a walnut stocked, perfectly fitted and finished Euroarms US M1841 "Mississippi" rifle. I ordered it (.54 was a special order proposition and there was a wait) years ago for a incredibly low price. It is super accurate with prb and weighs about 9.5 pounds, whew! I really would like an early flintlock in that caliber. It is a great deer/bear/elk caliber. The .45 is my favorite but, well.....

 

[Gene L]

They are not making the GPR as well as they used to. That is why I didn't recommend one out the gate.

I've heard the same thing. My 20 year old GPR has a European walnut stock; I heard the newer ones have "hardwoood" stocks. Birch?

This means more to me than perhaps it should, but I especially like walnut. I doubt it improves shootability.

 

[cynthialee]

I don't know what wood they are using but the fit and finish is not as good as the older guns.
An older GPR is a pleasure to hold. These new ones have fit issues. Mainly minor stuff that wouldn't even come up for me in a less expensive gun. But if I am shelling out that kind of dough for a new rifle, at their price, it best be flawless.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Don't discount the .54 cal. I have both .54's and .50's in both caplock and flint & find that, without exception, I get better accuracy at distance with my .54's. The.54 is easier to shoot & easier to work up a precision load; it seems more forgiving than .50 cal over a wider range of powder loads.

From what I've read and discussed with others though, the .50 has cheaper ammo (and more variety, but that's less important in a state that only allows lead for hunting), a higher velocity, and a longer range than the .54. Are you finding large differences in accuracy between the two calibers, or just that the .54 consistently performs a bit better?

.50 cal is cheaper ammo is a BS argument. If you can't afford the penny or 2 more for a .54 roundball over a .50, maybe you can't afford the sport.

More variety? Roundballs in cast or swaged are a personal preference but not a consideration of one caliber over the other. Any of my .54 cal flintlocks will punch a grapefruit set out at 100 yards all the time; the .50's can, too ...most of the time. Over the years I've found any of my .54's are more consistently accurate. For both calibers I'm shooting 1:48" twist barrels. All are Lyman rifles. One .54 is A Custom Hawken Cabelas cap Model over 35 years old, and the newest is a .54 flint Trade Rifle. Even without a set trigger, the Trade Rifle accuracy and performance is extreme. .54 cal retains more energy out to longer distance than does .50 cal.

Rodwha provides some realistic numbers for .50 vs .54 - why handicap yourself is sound advice.

Lyman appeared to be in a quality slump a few years go, but my new (March) Trade rifle fit & finish is on par with the 35 year old built rifle.

You need to get a rifle in hand ASAP and go shoot it. Get it broken in and work up an accurate load - today, not a year from now. Once you are familiar with the mechanics of the rifle and comfortable of its' capabilities, then it's time to apply that spendy advice everyone touts about buying a custom or in-the-white rifle. After all, when you first learned to drive, did you go out & buy the most expensive car you could find? Most folks don't. Buy something you won't have to wait 6 months to a year, or more to get built. Get something you can take out to the range in a week or 2 and accumulate some actual practical experience of your own and not influenced by what your friends may tell you. It will help you to decide what you want in a rifle in the future.

For hunting, if you need higher velocity and longer range, you need a modern rifle. If you're capable of tippy-toeing thru the brush to get up close to make that 75 - 125 yard shot, you're a potential blackpowder hunter & there's not much a .50 or .54 won't reliable take, given a little skill in shot placement. I'm happy with the performance of my Lymans. Maybe I've been lucky over more than 3 decades of various models; or maybe it's a skill developed by shooting to gain familiarity of a rifle. None of mine have failed to perform to my expectations - a custom rifle won't shoot any better for me, although the vanity of a prettier rifle does hold some charm.

 

[derek58]

Thanks for the insight, Danny! It's nice to know that you were in a similar position and now prefer the .54. This discussion is really making me start to lean in that direction.

 

[derek58]

Yeah I grep up in a rural area 30 minutes East of Eugene, and now I live in town for work until I hopefully go to PA school in a few years. The political scene here certainly is iffy, but I mostly just ignore it. Fortunately, a lot of people in EMS are moderates like myself, so there are a fair few gun guys and gals in my circle.

I just discovered "The Gun Works" a week or two ago, and it's a really great store. I'm glad to have it in my area.

So far, I hunt exclusively in Eastern Oregon. A few units North of Enterprise, and one unit East of Burns. I love the open areas and the mountains and the pine forests. Beautiful country.

 

[cynthialee]

When I only had .50's I had to go get a .54, then a .56 smooth bore. Then another .50...then I had to sell some other guns and a couple .50's to buy another gun which wasn't to my satisfaction...But I am very pleased with the .54 yet still hunt with the .50's mostly.
See where this hobby leads?

 

[AZbpBurner]

They are not making the GPR as well as they used to. That is why I didn't recommend one out the gate.

I've heard the same thing. My 20 year old GPR has a European walnut stock; I heard the newer ones have "hardwoood" stocks. Birch?

This means more to me than perhaps it should, but I especially like walnut. I doubt it improves shootability.

My 35 year old Cabelas/Investarms rifle has really nice quality European Walnut. My GPR from about 6 years ago has nice walnut wood, too, but came with lousy finish. Strip & refinish & it looks 1000% better. My newest Trade Rifle looks like American Walnut and is much better quality than I expected from recent Investarms product reviews. With the factory finish, it looks as good as my GPR did after I refinished it myself.

Denser walnut may well shoot better than birch or beech "hardwoods" since it will be less prone to dimensional changes with heat or humidity.

 

[charlie b]

So, I have not seen if you really want to hunt with a PRB or conical. That alone makes a difference in which caliber to get, especially if you are thinking of going after elk or bigger. For deer a .50 would be fine, but, a .54 would be more flexible.

But, if you are interested in conical then the .50 would be my pick (and is what I have).

The Lyman GPR and GPH are not flawless but I love the looks of them. I have a GPH and shoot conicals most of the time. I do not cast either so I either shoot PP bullets bought from Buffalo Arms or Hornady Great Plains bullets. If you want to shoot past 200yd they are the way to go, IMHO. You do have to be decent at range estimation when you get to longer ranges.

If you want a flawless rifle with good wood you will be looking at a custom job. Pedersoli is probably the best of the commercial production rifles.

 

[Danny Ross]

There is one other consideration for you also while you are looking for a rifle. Do you want one with a set trigger or do you want a single trigger. Personally I like a set trigger with my Lymans, Thompson Centers, and my Tipp Curtis custom Flintlock. When I was introduced to muzzleloading the gun I fired had a set trigger, I liked it, so that is what I got when I bought my first TC. When the set trigger is pulled it makes the firing trigger light, so it helps you stay on target better when you pull it. I have no personal knowledge, but as I understand it on a custom gun with a single trigger, it can be had with a light pull also, I just don't know if it can be set up as light as one with a set trigger. Others on here may comment on their experiences using a single trigger. There are single trigger production rifles also. I have a little experience with them. A buddy of mine has one and "I" just wasn't impressed with the trigger pull. He liked it though. As with anything in this sport it is all a matter of preference. Now if it is dead still quiet while hunting, the animal has snuck in on you, and is close. Using a set trigger is not with out its issues. You will have to cock the gun and have the click of the set trigger to contend with. You can cock the gun relatively quietly by holding the firing trigger back while pulling the hammer back, then release the trigger, so the hammer will catch when you release it. Takes a little practice but it can be done. You can't quiet the set trigger when you pull it. The set trigger isn't THAT loud by any stretch of the imagination, just a very light click. In the conditions described though, with a deer's hearing, and their ears are pointing anywhere in your direction, I have spooked a deer pulling the set trigger. But that is one of the challenges to this type of hunting. So this is something else to decide on when buying your rifle. DANNY

 

[derek58]

So, I have not seen if you really want to hunt with a PRB or conical. That alone makes a difference in which caliber to get, especially if you are thinking of going after elk or bigger. For deer a .50 would be fine, but, a .54 would be more flexible.

But, if you are interested in conical then the .50 would be my pick (and is what I have).

The Lyman GPR and GPH are not flawless but I love the looks of them. I have a GPH and shoot conicals most of the time. I do not cast either so I either shoot PP bullets bought from Buffalo Arms or Hornady Great Plains bullets. If you want to shoot past 200yd they are the way to go, IMHO. You do have to be decent at range estimation when you get to longer ranges.

If you want a flawless rifle with good wood you will be looking at a custom job. Pedersoli is probably the best of the commercial production rifles.

In Oregon, you can only hunt with a full lead projectile. As a result, if I were to shoot conicals, I would be limited to a maxi-ball/maxi-hunter type projectile, which I understand to have marginally better external ballistics to a PRB, and arguably similar terminal ballistics to a PRB. And they are definitely more expensive (yes, I get it, if I cast my own, it'd be cheaper, but that's not the point). At this time, I'm leaning towards round ball/slow twist

 

[derek58]

I was just about to ask about that actually haha. I've used both kinds of triggers on muzzleloaders (though for the single trigger, it was not custom). I probably like the idea of a set trigger more, but I'd like to know what the rest of you guys think? If most single trigger guns are comparable to a good single stage centerfire trigger, I doubt it will be an issue for me.

 

[Jumpshot]

I just discovered "The Gun Works" a week or two ago, and it's a really great store. I'm glad to have it in my area.

It's a good shop. It's where I get my powder and stuff, and I've bought several guns from them. I just picked up some Olde Eynsford powder when I was there last week to try in my smallbores.

 

[Louisk]

I really like the GPR (.54 percussion) I bought a couple of years ago. There isn't much of a selection of traditional muzzleloaders on the shelves around here so I just ordered a new one from Dixie Gun Works and was not disappointed with what I got for the money.

I'm like you and don't have the bucks to get a new gun for every whim. I've wanted a muzzleloader for most of my life, but due to other expensive hobbies haven't been able to justify one until I decided to participate in the off season muzzleloader moose hunt locally. Most probably get muzzleloaders so they can participate in the hunt but it was somewhat the opposite for me. I wasn't successful at getting close enough for a shot last year so can't say firsthand how a .54PRB will do on a moose, but from what I've heard it should do fine when operated within it's limitations.

It looks like the GPR has gone up about a hundred bucks at Dixie since I bought mine but it looked like the best price was at The Gun Works place that you mentioned. They appear to have a nice selection of more custom used rifles there too.