First post, maybe some advice?

[dracer]

welcome to the forum

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I been messin' with black powder since childhood. Built a dam across the creek so I could blow it up. It was not a stealthy operation, so my father found out when he heard it explode 150 yds from the house an' saw an enormous cloud of smoke. That was 1982, an' I still feel the thin end of the horsewhip.
I got into flinters like most people do. Because we can't get percussion caps. Recently, I found a banged up Pedersoli Frontier, .50, percussion with the hammer bent to hell. Unusual as it does not have the DeLuxe brass, but has a curly maple stock. Pedersoli says it was a limited run commissioned by Cabelas in the mid '90's. I decided to fix it as a flinter, and long story short, I finally fitted a L&R Ketland lock lest I further disturb the peaceful slumber Pedersoli find themselves in.
I'm always trying to exceed the limitations, and that brings the question.
Currently, I'm trying to semi-consistently hit an acetalyne tank a hair over 300 yds off. When I shoot a patched ball over 90gr 777, I have to Kentucky elevate maybe 10 foot to howitzer them 176gr balls in. Gotta be a better way, so what if I was to sabot a .40 200gr bullet over the same charge? The bullet's a mite heavier, but it's cuttin' much less air. Am I barkin' up the wrong tree in the right forest, or yellin' at the desert?

Since you've turned your Percussion rifle into a flintlock, I have to ask how in the world you get that thing to work reliably with 777 powder. None of those Black Powder substitutes work for with a flintlock because it takes about a 400° hotter spark to light them up. When I bought my first flintlock longrifle in 2003/2004 I tried some Pyrodex and got zero results with it. Then I bought some 777 and could get it to go off once in a while but not reliably. I was using it for Rev. War reenactments and the rule is if your gun (rifle or musket) misfires 3 times, then you have to become a casualty at the next enemy volley. Spent my first reenactment dying quickly at each battle.

I actually had some black powder in a jar that I had used with my Pedersoli Kentucky Pistol back in 1969 and socked away in my garage. I tried that and it worked flawlessly - first time every time as long as I did my part. Then I found out I could get real black powder at a village (Vermont) only 6-miles away and my flintlock ignition problems were solved. So I'd say kiss off that 777 and get yourself some real black powder in FFFg (triple F).

If not familiar with Black Powder (BP) grades, the more F's on the label the smaller the granulation is. The fewer "F's" the larger the granules. The "g" after the F's means it is coated with graphite which makes it more resistant to moisture and less likely to turn into soupy mud in the pan in high humidity situations. Here are common grades:

• 4F (FFFFg) is primarily used for priming the pan. I never use it personally because the increase in speed of ignition is not detectable by the human eye, even it can be measured with scientific instruments. Using the same charge for priming as you use for the main charge means you only have to carry one powder horn not two. It is also sometimes used in pistols but you have to be very careful with the load or you can really mess up a revolver because of the higher pressures resulting from the faster burn on 4F.

• 3F (FFFg) is used for rifles up to and including .50-cal. That's what I use in both my .50-cal longrifles for both priming and the main charge. Some .50-cal rifles prefer 2F. You typically have to try both to see which one you're .50-cal likes. Under .50-cal it's the right choice.

• 2F (FFg) is the largest "normal" granulation used in rifles and muskets. It is typically used for everything over .50 caliber such .54-cal and .62-cal as well as French model muskets (.69-cal) and British land-pattern muskets (Brown Bess) - .75-cal.

Hope that helps.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

^^^THAT is a cool trick.^^^

Never seen it before.

In the Civil War they were using flip-up sights on their rifled muskets (model 1861 Springfield). It had flip up leaf sights for 100-yards, 300-yards, and 500-yards. Reputedly they most commonly used the 300-yard sight. You would just flip-up whichever one you needed. If I recall correctly there were only using 65gr. of 2F powder with their .58 Minié Ball (conical). I think you can get them from Track of the Wolf. Anyhow, here's picture of it:

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Since you've turned your Percussion rifle into a flintlock, I have to ask how in the world you get that thing to work reliably with 777 powder. None of those Black Powder substitutes work for with a flintlock because it takes about a 400° hotter spark to light them up. When I bought my first flintlock longrifle in 2003/2004 I tried some Pyrodex and got zero results with it. Then I bought some 777 and could get it to go off once in a while but not reliably. I was using it for Rev. War reenactments and the rule is if your gun (rifle or musket) misfires 3 times, then you have to become a casualty at the next enemy volley. Spent my first reenactment dying quickly at each battle.

I actually had some black powder in a jar that I had used with my Pedersoli Kentucky Pistol back in 1969 and socked away in my garage. I tried that and it worked flawlessly - first time every time as long as I did my part. Then I found out I could get real black powder at a village (Vermont) only 6-miles away and my flintlock ignition problems were solved. So I'd say kiss off that 777 and get yourself some real black powder in FFFg (triple F).

If not familiar with Black Powder (BP) grades, the more F's on the label the smaller the granulation is. The fewer "F's" the larger the granules. The "g" after the F's means it is coated with graphite which makes it more resistant to moisture and less likely to turn into soupy mud in the pan in high humidity situations. Here are common grades:

• 4F (FFFFg) is primarily used for priming the pan. I never use it personally because the increase in speed of ignition is not detectable by the human eye, even it can be measured with scientific instruments. Using the same charge for priming as you use for the main charge means you only have to carry one powder horn not two. It is also sometimes used in pistols but you have to be very careful with the load or you can really mess up a revolver because of the higher pressures resulting from the faster burn on 4F.

• 3F (FFFg) is used for rifles up to and including .50-cal. That's what I use in both my .50-cal longrifles for both priming and the main charge. Some .50-cal rifles prefer 2F. You typically have to try both to see which one you're .50-cal likes. Under .50-cal it's the right choice.

• 2F (FFg) is the largest "normal" granulation used in rifles and muskets. It is typically used for everything over .50 caliber such .54-cal and .62-cal as well as French model muskets (.69-cal) and British land-pattern muskets (Bro

Since you've turned your Percussion rifle into a flintlock, I have to ask how in the world you get that thing to work reliably with 777 powder. None of those Black Powder substitutes work for with a flintlock because it takes about a 400° hotter spark to light them up. When I bought my first flintlock longrifle in 2003/2004 I tried some Pyrodex and got zero results with it. Then I bought some 777 and could get it to go off once in a while but not reliably. I was using it for Rev. War reenactments and the rule is if your gun (rifle or musket) misfires 3 times, then you have to become a casualty at the next enemy volley. Spent my first reenactment dying quickly at each battle.

I actually had some black powder in a jar that I had used with my Pedersoli Kentucky Pistol back in 1969 and socked away in my garage. I tried that and it worked flawlessly - first time every time as long as I did my part. Then I found out I could get real black powder at a village (Vermont) only 6-miles away and my flintlock ignition problems were solved. So I'd say kiss off that 777 and get yourself some real black powder in FFFg (triple F).

If not familiar with Black Powder (BP) grades, the more F's on the label the smaller the granulation is. The fewer "F's" the larger the granules. The "g" after the F's means it is coated with graphite which makes it more resistant to moisture and less likely to turn into soupy mud in the pan in high humidity situations. Here are common grades:

• 4F (FFFFg) is primarily used for priming the pan. I never use it personally because the increase in speed of ignition is not detectable by the human eye, even it can be measured with scientific instruments. Using the same charge for priming as you use for the main charge means you only have to carry one powder horn not two. It is also sometimes used in pistols but you have to be very careful with the load or you can really mess up a revolver because of the higher pressures resulting from the faster burn on 4F.

• 3F (FFFg) is used for rifles up to and including .50-cal. That's what I use in both my .50-cal longrifles for both priming and the main charge. Some .50-cal rifles prefer 2F. You typically have to try both to see which one you're .50-cal likes. Under .50-cal it's the right choice.

• 2F (FFg) is the largest "normal" granulation used in rifles and muskets. It is typically used for everything over .50 caliber such .54-cal and .62-cal as well as French model muskets (.69-cal) and British land-pattern muskets (Brown Bess) - .75-cal.

Hope that helps.

A'ight, pull up a rock an' set. 'Splain that to you real quick. See, I use 777 as a propellant. I keep that in the powder horn. I prime the pan with 4F Swiss. I keep that in a tiny brass priming flask. How it works is the flint sets the Swiss on fire, an' the Swiss sets off the 777.

Hope that helps.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

In the Civil War they were using flip-up sights on their rifled muskets (model 1861 Springfield). It had flip up leaf sights for 100-yards, 300-yards, and 500-yards. Reputedly they most commonly used the 300-yard sight. You would just flip-up whichever one you needed. If I recall correctly there were only using 65gr. of 2F powder with their .58 Minié Ball (conical). I think you can get them from Track of the Wolf. Anyhow, here's picture of it:


View attachment 217404

There we go! That's what I

Greetings and welcome from NH!

My old man has one of those Pedersoli Frontier flinters. We tried testing some conical maxi balls in it (320 IIRC), but despite the supposed "intermediate" 1:48 rifling twist they wouldn't group particularly well. It's a round ball shooter, pure and simple. 300 yards is definitely pushing it.

Yeah, however it's what it is right now. I bought it as a project. I wanted to build my own but I'm a little short on skill with wood. I found this one and it has a fairly pretty maple stock. So far it's shooting, but I have to wait a few more months for my turn with Rice Barrel Co. It'll end up with the ferrules, stock, and triggers being original Pedersoli. The replacement barrel will be a .451 molychrome with a 1:20 twist.
The 1:48 ROT is only good for pistol bullets imho. It's too fast for the tiny bearing surface of a ball, and too slow for a rifle-length projectiles. What I want to end up with is a rifle capable at 300-350 yds throwing about a ~330gr hardcast Minie ball, sized to .449

 

[UndeadPoet]

Welcome! That is a fine looking Frontier! My .54 Blue Ridge is a 1:60” (1:66”) twist. PRB for me…

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

That's interesting. I've had Pedersolis in .45 an' .50 an' they're all 1:48. I will relace my barrel with a .45 Rice fast-twist. Ordered it back in September, so I'm halfway down the waitin' list. I wanna sit on my back porch an' shoot a brightly spraypainted orange 1/2" steel at 300 yds. Every day it ain't rainin'. Call it a Zen thing.

 

[Jason holgate]

Welcome from pa

 

[Twisted_1in66]

A'ight, pull up a rock an' set. 'Splain that to you real quick. See, I use 777 as a propellant. I keep that in the powder horn. I prime the pan with 4F Swiss. I keep that in a tiny brass priming flask. How it works is the flint sets the Swiss on fire, an' the Swiss sets off the 777.

Hope that helps.

I've heard of folks using a compound load before but that usually uses a small charge of BP behind the substitute powder. Pyrodex actually makes a pellet that has a BP "black igniter" on the bottom of the pellet to be loaded bottom down for as many 50gr. pellets as you need.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Only time that powder is ever "wasted"...is if you spill some.

It is wasting if you put more in than the barrel can process.
There is no benefit to using more powder than will burn in the barrel.

Until I found the Davenport Formula, I wasted powder too.

 

[Ed C.]

It is wasting if you put more in than the barrel can process.
There is no benefit to using more powder than will burn in the barrel.

Until I found the Davenport Formula, I wasted powder too.

Doing my own load development I am using less powder than the formula suggests. It is close for the .50 cal though.

 

[TFoley]

I've heard of folks using a compound load before but that usually uses a small charge of BP behind the substitute powder. Pyrodex actually makes a pellet that has a BP "black igniter" on the bottom of the pellet to be loaded bottom down for as many 50gr. pellets as you need.

The igniter in the centre of a Pyrodex pellet is meant to be ignited by a flame impinging directly onto it, at the centre of the base, as it does with an in-**** style arm. NOT for a percussion or flintlock firearm, in which the flame reaches the charge from the side.