First shot from clean barrel

[C Barker]

I shoot a deerstalker flinter .50 caliber with 60 grains 3F under #40 drill lubed 8/1 a la Dutch cut patch at muzzle and a .490 ball. The first shot is always an adventure, never know for sure where it will go. After the first shot and a quick wet then dry patch swab a la Dutch everything settles down and groups right in there. Hence the first shot is like a fouling shot. The question is do I want to have a powder only fouling shot at home or by the truck and then load up the hunting load. I am wondering about moisture and the effects it might have sitting in the barrel for maybe several hours. (God I hope not if it's raining or cold!) When I am at the range there doesn't seem to be any problem but there I'm shooting much sooner between shots so the moisture is never a problem. Never had a problem with it except one time I was talking and wetting the patch at the same time -- big mistake! Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Stubert]

Have you thought about a different load, one that will shoot from a clean barrel, That is the most important shot. You're probably not going to get a second shot hunting.

 

[BrownBear]

Boy, I sure wouldn't accept that in my hunting guns. I sight them in for a "one shot group," with the POI of the first shot from a clean barrel being the ultimate decider in the sight-in. If that first shot was hitting all over the place, I'd call it a faulty load in my book.

Maybe you're onto something with your thoughts about long hours with a wet patch. I prefer grease-type lubes for consistency of first shots, and I bet there are folks here just as happy with dry.

BTW- My wife's Deerstalker is a 54 capper, and it hits the same POI at 25 and 50 yards using 35, 60 and 80 grains of 3f Goex and a grease patch. On the first shot too. She's a good shot and that's all second hand, because she won't let me touch her rifle! Darn it all anyway.

 

[paulvallandigham]

What is the Spent Patch for that first shot telling you?? READ THAT PATCH, and then compare it to the next 4! That should tell you a lot about what is going on in the barrel.

I Suspect that you are NOT USING the CORRECT Patch/lube/ball diameter combination in the gun. Measure both the Land-to-Land( bore) diameter, and then measure the groove depth(groove diameter). You need a patch thick enough that when compressed, will still fill those grooves to seal back gases. A thicker patch will also hold MORE LUBE, and that also helps seal the gases behind your PRB, and keeps the patch from tearing and burning.

For hunting, ZERO the gun for that first shot- not the next 4! In most cases, you will only get that first shot.

You SHOULD BE CONCERNED about what allowing residue to remain for long periods of time in the bore of the gun. That is how RUST occurs. BTDT. Use an vegetable based, or mineral oil based lube- not something with water in it, and not petroleum based oils.

You can get away with the water based patch lubes on shooting ranges, when you will be shooting the gun fairly quickly after the gun is loaded. That doesn't work too well in the field, particularly when the temperature is below freezing, and will the dry air will suck the moisture right out of your patch! :shocked2: :idunno: :surrender: :hmm: In cold weather, a bit of extra lube in your patch, that will grease the entire length of your bore, both lands and grooves, goes a long way to protecting the bore from rust during the long hours of a hunt.

In using a chronograph to measure velocities, I found that MV increased consistently if I ran a greased cleaning patch down my barrel AFTER seating my PRB, in both my rifle, and smoothbores. That grease in the barrel seems to prevent powder residue from Sticking to the sides of the bore, making it much easier to clean, or load the next round. :hmm:

 

[ohio ramrod]

I ALWAYS burn some powder only before loading a ball to make sure all oil has ben removed from the breech area. I use a dry patch or leather wad between my lubed patches (or greased mini ) and the powder. Also to protect the barrel from moisture which is common in deer hunting in Ohio, after loading I run a heavily lubed patch up and down the barrel. Your first shot deer hunting is the most critical!

 

[410-er]

Had the same problem when I first started with flinters till I got a tighter patch/ball combo.Had 3 Deerstalkers in the past and they all liked 80grs of FFg and .018 patch.

 

[Tom Compton]

Try a few cold barrel shots with a .495 ball.
TC

 

[rr11]

Try changing patch and lube, in cold weather I use Tracks mink oil and my rifle shoots to point of aim 1st and 2nd shot. In a hunting rifle I do not worry about 3rd ect. When loading before hunting I burn a pan of powder to clean the flash hole but the barrel is clean.

 

[longbow1]

you know what I use a .015 parch and a .495 ball the lube on the patch is water based cutting fluid
at a 1 part cutting fluid and 7 parts water i have no need for a fouling shot the ball goes down the barrel nicely clean between each shot with a slightly wet patch (with water) i do not follow up with a dry patch . I seem to be making all the mistakes some of you talk about but it works well enough to hunt with . My GPR loves it does it's job every time . What I am trying to say is that everything is not just cut and dry every rifle likes something different you just need to fine out what it likes :wink:

 

[H. E. Schwalm]

I have the same problem with my first shot. 50 cal 42" Colerain. Group great on second, etc., How do you bring that first shot in? I shoot off hand 50 yds 6" groups of 10, 12 rounds. First one, Lord only knows where it goes.

 

[gearheart]

Trouble is your first shot is your money shot. No deer in his right mind will let you have a second kick at the can. You got to keep working on your load until that first shot is good enough to make meat.

 

[H. E. Schwalm]

Help me here. Since the second and on shots are grouped, If I correct my sight picture to the first shot, what happens to the second. Do you correct the first shot with load and patch, etc., or with sight picture?

 

[86marine]

See the Problem that we have here in the north unlike Alabama, when it gets cold we mean it gets cold.

Using a water based lube is just compounding our problems with rust especially when the barrel is the same temp as ambient air around us, and I have gone out in our late ML season which starts the day following Christmas and have negative temps that raise Kane our our barrels. Even when the slightest bit of snow melts on them from the heat coming off the hand we are holding it with.

But what I suggest to my fellow commonwealth ML'er is to go with a larger ball or patch and try to see what works best and to use a non water based non petro lube, I use lard and have never had any problems with grouping, cold bore shots or rusting inside the barrel.

 

[Deadeye]

Spit for plinking and competition, crisco squeezed almost dry for hunting, all shots same group.
Deadeye

 

[longbow1]

Let me explane the patch 7:1 water to cutting fluid cut your strips soak them for about 10 min lay them flat let the water evaporate from them what you have left is dry powder on the patch they are dry and shoot great :thumbsup:

 

[Mattole]

Now when you fellows warn against 'water based' lubes are you also referring to something like Moose Milk/Juice that is soaked into patch material and left to evaporate before use? I think not, but I'm a little confused with all this mink oil and lard flying around.. :grin:

 

[86marine]

It all really depends on what you like and works best for you and your gun. I like the lard since all i have to do is put a small amount on the patch rub it in and I am ready to go.

 

[75dixie]

I sight all my ML in on dirty barrels. First shot is always way off from the rest(Low Friction). Before I hunt I fire a fouling shot. This also insures theres nothing left over from the cleaning process that would inhibit ignition. Also I would not group a gun with a clean bore, that would be a crap ton of cleaning to get a 5 shot group!

 

[longbow1]

I know little about moose milk I do know that my rifle sounds different and shoots better since i started using the 7:1 cutting fluid . My rifle has a crack sound instead of a boom, my groups at 50 yards went from 2 in to touching each other, clean up is a breeze very little fouling shooting a .495 ball and a .0018 patch :thumbsup:

 

[gearheart]

Help me here. Since the second and on shots are grouped, If I correct my sight picture to the first shot, what happens to the second. Do you correct the first shot with load and patch, etc., or with sight picture?

Adjust patch and powder until first clean shot goes to same place every time. Then adjust the sights. "dirty barrel shots" are grouping because of the crud making a tighter fit. Tighter patch = same difference. :thumbsup: