First shot reliability!

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Gents, I never had a problem with my other cap locks going off with the first cap following my getting ready to shoot which involves making sure everything is dry etc.

My Parker hale Enfield p61 smooth rifle is a pain though, failing to go on the first cap most ocasions however is fine once fired.

I notice with nipple removed a tiny hole into the barrel,flash hole. It is not even round. I feel it is not letting some fuel into the little chamber beneath the nipple.

My question is, do you think I should open it up slightly with a small drill? Or should I open the nipple hole a little to allow more flash in there (after all thats what I did to my Pedersoli's to get a good ignition)?

Brits.
 
There's quite a bit of debate about how big is too big on the hole, and I won't go there. But in this case I'd have no qualms about selecting just the right bit to make that hole round while not enlarging it past it's current max diameter.

I'm more than curious how they managed to manufacture it with an out-of-round hole. Mysteries abound in this world. If the little bit of drilling didn't help, I'd be more inclined to replace the nipple entirely rather than keep enlarging, but that's because I'm a conservative.
 
Many years ago I built a CVA mountain rifle from a kit. It was the most unreliable gun I ever owned. One day while cleaning it I noticed how small the flash hole passage was when I removed the cleanout screw. I opened it up a little and WOW, different gun. Went off every time. I do not remember what size I opened it to. So yes open it. I would see if you can look at someone elses rifle to see what size you might need.
 
My thinking (twisted as though it may be!) is that you should go ahead and open that hole just to the size to make it round. Try that; if no good, then open it to the next size, etc. After all, the nipple on an underhammer gun goes right into the powder charge directly with no problem.
 
Yeah, the curious thing for me is that after the first firing it's completely reliable. Usually if misfires occur, it's in subsequent firings as the nipple cruds up. Simply rounding out the hole should help, in any case, whether or not it's the ultimate solution.
 
By first, I am assuming that you mean the first hammer fall on a new cap fails to set the cap off which then obviously does not ignite the main charge?

If so, check the shape of the nipple in relation to the cap. Is one a straight wall and the other tapered?

assuming so, what could be happening is that the first strike of the hammer form fits the cap to fit the nipple and the second strike sets off the newly reshaped cap.

By obtining the correctly shaped and/or sized caps, this problem should be solved.

Some people also press the hammer down on the cap forcefully to eliminate the first strike doing the presure fitting job, but this is not an ideal answer.

I hope that this helps,
CS
 
don't know if this applies here but I've on occasion "dressed" the nipple some with fine emory cloth.This is done by hand slowly to get a good fit not loose fit of the cap on the nipple,I've found that sometimes the nipple is a very little too large for the cap,the "dressing" fixes this
 
Looking at my PH (Birmingham) 1853 3 band Rifled Musket's nipple hole it is apparent that the hole that connects the nipple hole with the bore is not drilled.

It appears to be the result of the tap diameter for the threads breaking into a cavity in the breech.

I see no reason that it couldn't be enlarged with the proper drill bit (3/32", 1/8"?) as long as great care is taken to prevent the small drill from damaging the nipple threads.

Whether doing this would help solve the problem is uncertain.

I'm guessing the area in the breech and nipple hole are pretty oily until the first shot is fired. Usually the first shot will blow out any remaining oil in the area.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to pour a bit of denatured alcohol down the bore with the barrel positioned so that the alcohol that runs out of the nipple will drip on the ground instead of on the stock? Then giving the gun some time to dry out before loading?
This should remove most if not all of the oil that has accumulated in that area.
 
I assume you follow the standard proceedure of firing off two caps before loading the gun to blow out any oil from the flash passages. I always point the gun at a small leaf to be sure a blast is coming out of the barrel.

If you get your nipple hole too big you will start blowing back the hammer to halfcock.
 
Guys, if I correctly understand the Brit's post he isn't speaking of the hole in the nipple but the "flash channel" between nipple and powder chamber. If that can be enlarged without damaging the nipple threads I'd say larger is always better, just don't break a bit in there. As to the nipple itself, yes, there is a maximum diameter for safe function.
 
When a flash channel is present in a percussion gun, you want it to be only large enough to allow AIR, being pushed ahead of the PRB or Minie ball as you push them down the barrel, to push some of the powder in your main charge into the flash channel, and over Under the nipple. That insures CONSISTENT, reliable ignition.

You can check to see if the ignition problems are due to this current shaped flash channel, by loading the gun as normal, but then removing the nipple, to look down to see if you have powder visible under the nipple.

If you don't, then opening that flash channel UP to a Round diameter, JUST LARGE ENOUGH to let the powder you are using travel into the flash channel from the barrel, is a wound idea.

If you do see powder under the nipple, the problem is with the Nipple, or your cleaning procedure, as Zonie describes, and several others have mentioned. Oil has to be removed from the Nipple( yes even that very much small er hole can foul your powder if oil is left in there) and from that flash channel under the nipple that leads to the breech end of the barrel. Flushing the bore with alcohol is the best way to clear the oil- and a more reliable way than firing caps off.

Oil burns at a higher flash point, and if you are using petroleum based oils, you will leave TARS in the flash channel, which can cause both misfires, and hangfires until they are burned out or otherwise removed. Not having remembered to flush the back end of the gun with alcohol, the next best way to clear the gun is to fire a couple of caps off in hopes they burn the oil clear. In such a case, I like to run a dampened cleaning patch down the barrel to catch the oil and debris from firing the caps, and then remove the patch from the barrel to remove that debris. The patch tells me if I had oil in the flash channel, or other debris. The patch also keeps all that stuff out of my barrel, so that the bore is clean for loading the powder charge and projectile. Yes, the patch is "scorched" by the flame from the caps. But, if its wet, or lubed, it usually is not burned thru.

There is a difference between a "Flash channel hole", and the hole in the nipple. The smaller hole in the nipple is designed to block most of the pressure from the gun going off so that your hammer is not blown back off the nipple when the gun fires.

Its a safety issue, so that the percussion cap does not fragment, and fly off the nipple to injure the shooter, or bystanders. ALWAYS check your nipple for wear. There are wires available to not only clear a nipple, but to measure the diameter the hole in that nipple. If there is any indication that the hole in the nipple is getting enlarged, Change the nipple. They don't cost that much- even for musket nipples, and shooters should have spare nipples in their kits always, along with that nipple wrench.

I can introduce you still to several friends of mine who were very embarrassed to admit they had not brought their nipple wrenches with them for a deer hunt, only to find their guns would not fire, and they had no way to get priming powder down under the nipple. Altho I was using my flintlock rifle on that hunt, I had my nipple wrench in my range box in the car, as well as priming powder, and I helped them all clear their guns with my tools. NO, I did not "rub it in". But, they all talked to me about the lesson they learned, privately, several times after that. Eventually, the story got out, and they all were able to laugh at themselves. People wanted to know why I had that nipple wrench along, and all I could tell them was that it was in the same place in my range box where I had always carried it, as I didn't need the space for anything else!( Dumb luck is the answer!)
 
Thanks everyone.

Zonie has described just how my gun is.

I have decided against opening the breech flash hole, I can see the drill bit snagging and snaping without being able to clamp the gun in a machine. It is clearly not a round hole but part of the machining process from both sides, breech and nipple hole.

However measuring the nipple hole it was something around .030" so I have opened it to .040" as I have done to all my other M/Ls.

I will be using from now on some of the recomendations made by you gents in my gun preps :thumbsup:

Brits.
 
The connecting hole on my Enfields looked to be around .050 on the minor axis and .080 on the major axis.

If the hole in your gun was as you say, .030, I think that opening it up to as much as .080 may greatly improve your guns reliability.
.030 is about the same diameter as the hole thru the nipple. It is small enough to prevent any powder from actually being blown back to the base of the nipple where the caps flame can easily ignite it.

Rather than using a drill bit that can snap off down in the hole a small tapered half round needle file could be used to file away some of the blockage. The file I'm thinking of tapers down to a point on the small end.
 
don't know if this applies here but I've on occasion "dressed" the nipple some with fine emory cloth. This is done by hand slowly to get a good fit not loose fit of the cap on the nipple,I've found that sometimes the nipple is a very little too large for the cap,the "dressing" fixes this
It applies quite well. Anything that improves cap to nipple fit is good for a cap lock.

CS
 
The idea of using a small, tapered, "rat-tailed" file is very good. This kind of thing is just the kind of work that can be done in a short amount of time with a hand tool such at the file you describe. Even better, these can be purchased at hardware stores everywhere. Its your decision if you spend the extra money to buy a wooden handle to put on the tang of the file or not.

Brits. You want that hole larger enough to let the coarse, FFg or pyrodex RS powder get down to the nipple. The nipple's much smaller hole will prevent hammer blow back, and spent caps from flying all over your face.

The problem with people using hand drills- even dremel tools-- is that they put the speed too high, and then try to drill too fast. Slow and easy is the way to go. And don't every try to drill out an out-of-round hole with ONE drill bit size, unless you have a machine shop sized drill PRESS, and a good vise for the plate on the press. Even then, it makes more sense to not ruin a drill bit, but drilling the hole larger in stages. You first want to just open up that hole enough to make the hole ROUND, whatever diameter that might be. Then, drill it up to size, but if that's more than .100", do it in stages. A small hole like this will take seconds to drill. It takes more time to remove used bits from the chuck, and put the next size bit in the chuck than it does to drill the hole.

Always use plenty of oil on the drill bits, to keep the edge cool. That's another reason to go slow- so you don't spatter oil all over the place( including your clothes and face! :shocked2:).

With a rattail file, it should take no time at all to open up that small hole.
 
Zonie said:
The connecting hole on my Enfields looked to be around .050 on the minor axis and .080 on the major axis.

If the hole in your gun was as you say, .030, I think that opening it up to as much as .080 may greatly improve your guns reliability.
.030 is about the same diameter as the hole thru the nipple. It is small enough to prevent any powder from actually being blown back to the base of the nipple where the caps flame can easily ignite it.

Rather than using a drill bit that can snap off down in the hole a small tapered half round needle file could be used to file away some of the blockage. The file I'm thinking of tapers down to a point on the small end.

Thanks Zonie and others, I failed to make myself clear.
The connecting hole is as Zonie describes in my Parker Hale too. I no longer think here lies the problem but from past experiance now believe it was the nipple orifice. All other guns of mine have never shot reliably with less than .040" so I have drilled the nipple to .040".

Come the next field test I hope I get better ignition, if not then I will have to investigate opening the connecting hole/channel.

I am not to worried about excessive blow back as it was never a problem with my other guns and they had lighter hammers than this martial type!


I will let you know come next time out, hopefully this weekend.

B :hatsoff:
 
I said I would let you know!

I shot one shot today on a cleaned barrel, cleaned with olive oil only last Sunday and prepped today for a rabbit hunt.

Full on ignition and a rabbit for home, looks promising :thumbsup:
shotrabbit.jpg


brits.
 
Glad to hear you got is solved Brits and that looks like a good size bunny, is that some variety of hare?
 
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