First Shots from Original French 1777

[GregLaRoche]

Depends upon the "cut of your Cheek!"

I’m new to shooting a 1777, but think the cut out helps to get your eyesight low enough to sight along the barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You don't necessarily want to sight along the barrel. I find with my long land pattern musket that I need to see the full bayonet lug sitting above the tang screw slot. If that shoots too low, you may need to adjust your cheek hold to see some of the barrel.

Many shooters want to shoot a smooth bore as they would a rifle. If you shoot along the barrel, the ball will impact low. Some people will bend the barrel to try to shoot a smooth bore using rifle like sight picture. It's much easier to adjust the cheek to stock contact.

 

[FlinterNick]

Depends upon the "cut of your Cheek!"

The cheek recess on the 1777 and later muskets was largely developed for improved aiming, however the standardized cut out section of the butt stock did very little to improve aiming, the process of raising the musket to the soldiers face was thought have been done quicker without the need of dropping the cheek to aim.

The best Charleville's for aim and shooting are the 1717 series muskets because the drop of the roman nose butt stock and raised rail comb provided superb comfort for aiming and the earlier French muskets weighed less than 9 lbs.

The 1763 musket had a decent drop and higher comb but the weight of 11 lbs made handling the musket complicated for the average soldier.

the 1766 and 1770/74 Charleville's were considered high quality shooters for their time because the weight was balanced and the drop was good and the rail comb acted as both a cheek recess and cheek riser; however these pattern muskets were expensive to produce. The American Springfield was copied from these designs as they were favored on the revolutionary war battlefield over the Brown Bess.

I would personally recommend the 1763 (light model) or the 1766/68 pattern; I have both patterns in my collection. The 1763 has more weight with a larger butt stock, but is pleasantly balanced. The 1766 is more or less a perfection of the 2.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

This is a pal's target shot in the UK.
He has done better, and has taken Gold in National and International.
Original 'Bess and off-hand at 50 metres.
He now uses a smaller ball and a patch, rather than the felt wad and bore size ball.

Thirteen shots, 10 best to score.

Richard.

 

[Stantheman86]

My attempt at about 100 yards with my 1795 Springfield repro (Pedersoli) , I had to get a sight picture where I could see pretty much from the tang screw to the muzzle.

When I get over my "Flintlock Flinch" I can probably do better.

Decades of shooting "unmentionable " rifles have a 100 yard bench mark ingrained in my mind, as in, I need to be able to hit with a shoulder arm at least to 100 to feel "complete " about its real world abilities.

 

[springfield art]

The 100 yd. benchmark is a good one in general, but with military muskets, the 18th C. commanders often let off volleys at 75 yds. or less on open ground. I would have fun shooting a musket at that range at a man-size paper target! Heck, 50-60 yds,, go for it!

 

[springfield art]

This is a pal's target shot in the UK.
He has done better, and has taken Gold in National and International.
Original 'Bess and off-hand at 50 metres.
He now uses a smaller ball and a patch, rather than the felt wad and bore size ball.
View attachment 15917
Thirteen shots, 10 best to score.

Richard.

WOW!

 

[Stantheman86]

I think half the fun is not being 100% sure you're gonna hit the target and then finding something resembling a group

 

[lyman54]

Shoot it off hand man. Benches are for sissy's.

I think the reverse. Bench rest with high recoil just plain hurts.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I think the reverse. Bench rest with high recoil just plain hurts.

True.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

I know you are right about it hurting from a bench, Lyman.
At one of our annual shoots, a couple of us tried firing the muskets from a high bench;
We both got groups of 4" to 4 1/2" at 50 yards, for 15 shots, but as we were using full charges of 125 grains, we both looked like chipmunks afterwards!

 

[RAEDWALD]

A Gentleman fires standing up.

 

[Stantheman86]

I fired my CS Richmond repro from the bench for a few shots, 60 gr of 2f with a Minie fired on a sandbag, and it wasn't pleasant. Every fraction of that recoil went into my face and shoulder.

 

[Baxter]

Trust that I not OT here, but somewhere long ago, I read that the British soldiers, perhaps in the EIC, in a battle with the indigenous folk, won a decisive battle because they were trained to aim for the belly button, whereas, their opponents were intent on head shots. (Whew, all of those commas.)

 

[springfield art]

I know you are right about it hurting from a bench, Lyman.
At one of our annual shoots, a couple of us tried firing the muskets from a high bench;
We both got groups of 4" to 4 1/2" at 50 yards, for 15 shots, but as we were using full charges of 125 grains, we both looked like chipmunks afterwards!

That's way too large of a charge; 70 gr. is about what the old military used; the Civil War .58 was 60 gr.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

No the charge is correct Springfield.
It is the regulation charge for a British musket (of musket bore, so around .76" diameter bore that takes a .75 " ball or a smaller (usually .69 ) in a paper cartridge.
This is for the percussion musket, but for flintlocks the charge was heavier, as the pan was primed from the cartridge prior to loading.
All best,
Richard.

 

[Stantheman86]

I use 100 gr of 2f in my .69 Smoothbores.

 

[springfield art]

No the charge is correct Springfield.
It is the regulation charge for a British musket (of musket bore, so around .76" diameter bore that takes a .75 " ball or a smaller (usually .69 ) in a paper cartridge.
This is for the percussion musket, but for flintlocks the charge was heavier, as the pan was primed from the cartridge prior to loading.
All best,
Richard.

I defer to those that may have read the actual regulations!

 

[Capnball]

I had a guy at a gun show tell me once (after asking him if an original 1770s long rifle shot well or not) "there are two types of guns available from that era. Guns that shot well and were handed down through history, father to son and cared for accordingly and guns that never shot well from the day they were built, consequently saw little use but leaving a very good appearance." My cousin has a replica built in the 90s with all the benefits of modern technology and it shoots horrible. He also has a Springfield from the 1880s and it hits anything it's pointed at. Go figure.

 

[toot]

a gentle man shoots standing up erect on his own two feet. that goes back many years ago . roger that.