First time black powder user

[rjgreen123]

Hello friends, I am just getting into Black Powder and like a babe in the woods I need guidance. Briefly I am 52 yrs old and have a non-violent Felony on my record from stupid youthful mistakes. I have since turned my life around and own my own business, and I am wanting to get back in to the woods with something other than my Bow. I understand that I can use a Pre 1899 black powder, percussion cap rifle and that is what I am looking to buy. Saw a very nice like new .58 caliber Cabelas Sporterized BP rifle for about $220.00 and am wondering if this would be a good introductory gun for me. Help??

 

[Stumpkiller]

No idea on the legal aspects. I'd first make sure you can buy the loading components: blackpowder or a substitute and primers. Depending on the state they may fall under ammunition.

The Cabela's Sporterized Hawken seems to be well liked according to the reviews on their website (worth a cu of coffee, I guess). .58 is plenty for anything in North America. It's a $495 rifle, so $220 is great if it has been well maintained.

Good luck in any case!

 

[rjgreen123]

thank you for the reply. Texas allows the purchase of ammunition and I have checked and double checked the legal side. So would you have a recommendation for powder, accesories, etc?
thanks again,

 

[Stumpkiller]

All I've ever used in muzzleloaders is black powder. I use Goex and like it. Lots of folks swear by Pyrodex or 777. Something like 90 to 100 gr of FFg ought to get you started. Try starting with 75 gr and moving up 5 gr at a time till you find a load that shoots best.

I use only round ball, and a .58 round ball is a whole lot of whup-arse. If your critter target is out past 100 yards you may need a conical (or to get closer)

Primers: CCI and Remington are both good. I think CCI are a little peppier but Remington more weatherproof (likely not as big a factor in TX as it is here in Humidityville). I use them interchangably depending on what I can find. You'll need #11 caps for that rifle.

 

[rjgreen123]

many thanks Mr. Pearsall for the advice and I will be starting out using everything you suggested. One final request, could you recommend a good reference link or literature to learn the basics of loading, cleaning, etc.?
thanks again, I will let you know how the first experience goes.....

 

[msuspartan]

A suggestion, look at the NMLRA site and see if there is a local BP group near by. Or if Texas has a state Muzzle loaders or Black Powder association.
They will be MORE than happy to show you the ropes. First hand experience is invaluable and that way you can ask qeustions and get quick answers.
They will also show you items to use and what not too. Many go and buy the whole store (me.... ) and then find out you did not need this, this AND that.
Plus, I hear you have alot of wild pork down that way to hunt. Good luck.

Cheers, DonK

 

[Bill Hall]

As far as the felony goes, I posed the same question a few months back concerning a friend of mine. Apperantly when a felony is involved, firearms ownership and use is controlled by state laws. Federal laws may allow former felons to use muzzleloaders, but if state laws are more restrictive, then that takes precedence. You may need to check with state law enforcement or maybe just ask your fish and game department.

Like Stumpkiller mentioned, you may be able to buy, own, and use the firearm, but may not be able to buy the powder and caps and such.

Good luck. Here's hoping it all works out for you. Bill

 

[jethro224]

If you were youthful enough (minor) when you made your "stupid mistake" the felony may not even be on your record any more. Might be worth checking into. :idunno: I know it used to be that way here. They changed the rules since then tho.

 

[Zonie]

I agree.
The State is where the control is if there is any.

Some states may only address the felony issue somewhat indirectly and it can be confusing.

The State may say something like, "Gun ownership by a felon is against the law." but turn around and declare guns and reproductions of guns made prior to 1898 are not considered to be "guns".

By the same token, Arizona for instance considers all firearms including the pre 1898 originals and reproductions to be "guns".

rgreen:
As for the .58 caliber rifle in question you will have to shoot patched .570 diameter roundballs patched with .012-.018 thick cotton patches lubed with some sort of patch lubricant.

Although several companies make them, balls of this size are sometimes not easy to find.
If you can find a .50 or .54 caliber rifle suitable lead roundballs are easier to find and usually cost a bit less.

A caplock (percussion) rifle can shoot either real black powder or one of the synthetic black powders like Pyrodex or 777. Smokeless powder of any kind must never be used though.

There are several good books about shooting muzzleloading rifles but I suggest that you spend some time reading the posts on this forum and asking questions here.
It will cost you less and IMO the information will be more usable for you.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

You are correct that Federal Law prevents felons (and any domestic violence misdimeanors) from owning firearms. Black powder muzzle-loaders are not fire arms. Conviction of such ownership results in a mandatory jail sentence. (Obviously, you know this, and as you said, you have checked out the Texas laws as well.)

The gun (not firearm) you suggest is a very reasonable starting point. It may not be perfectly "period correct", but neither are the laws restricting you. You can have a lot of fun with that gun.

It is worth finding Black Powder, even with a caplock, because it is just more consistent and reliable. When buying black powder you should be asked what you are using it for. "To shoot in a muzzle-loading rifle," is a great answer ("To blow up the House of Parliament" is not.

State laws can be more restrictive, but I do know of people in a similar position who shoot muzzle-loaders in Massachusetts (which is generally pretty restrictive).

 

[William O.]

You will need a powder horn or flask, adjustable powder measure, a .58 caliber jag if there isn't one already on the ramrod, nipple wrench and of course, patches and round ball. For now I suggest you start with pre-cut and lubed shooting patches between .015 & .018 thick. Later on you can try different patch thickness and lubes to see if they are more accurate in your rifle. I would also start with 2f Goex. If you can't find real black powder in your area then get a bottle of 2f Triple 7. You will also need some cleaning patches or you can just cut up an old t-shirt and make your own. It would be helpful but not required to have a shooting bag or range box, ball screw/puller, range rod, capper and an extra nipple or two. Maybe a nipple pick as well. You don't need powder solvents or fancy (and expensive) bottled cleaning solutions, starter kits or see through powder flasks. Avoid anything plastic, such as a see through powder flask, T-handle, etc. If you get a range rod get a bore guide to fit it and make sure the T handle spins free. The factory nipples on those rifles aren't very good, so if the previous owner hasn't changed that out, get a new one yourself. The stainless steel Hot Shot http://www.gandermountain.com/modp...r_Arms_Hot_Shot_Nipple&aID=503Y7&merchID=4006 or Spit Fire http://www.msmfg.com/images/97catpg23c.pdf nipples make good replacments. I'm sure there's something else that I've left out but you'll get good advice here. Good luck.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

You are correct that Federal Law prevents felons (and any domestic violence misdimeanors) from owning firearms. Black powder muzzle-loaders are not fire arms. Conviction of such ownership results in a mandatory jail sentence. (Obviously, you know this, and as you said, you have checked out the Texas laws as well.)

The gun (not firearm) you suggest is a very reasonable starting point. It may not be perfectly "period correct", but neither are the laws restricting you. You can have a lot of fun with that gun.

It is worth finding Black Powder, even with a caplock, because it is just more consistent and reliable. When buying black powder you should be asked what you are using it for. "To shoot in a muzzle-loading rifle," is a great answer ("To blow up the House of Parliament" is not.

State laws can be more restrictive, but I do know of people in a similar position who shoot muzzle-loaders in Massachusetts (which is generally pretty restrictive).

In Massachusetts a permit is required to purchase and posess Caps, BP, and the projectiles as they are considered ammunition. Hell, even the possession of the blank casings from the 21 gun salute of a military funeral are technically illegal to posess without a permit; and yes people have been prosecuted for having expended ammunition casings here. How messed up is that?

Projectiles for the .50 or .54 will be easier to find than for the .58 but get started. It takes a while to work up a load and to see what any particular BP rifle likes. I love hunting with mine.

Bob

 

[Rogue River]

You might want to consult an attorney! A friend of mine had a couple of felonies when he was younger and his attorney was able to get him a pardon. Worth looking into! :thumbsup:

 

[54ball]

The first thing you need to do is confirm your firearm ownership status. You may be misinformed, your gun rights may have been restored after your debt was paid. Make an appointment with your local county sheriff to find out what your present status is.
If your gun rights are still revoked you can consult an attorney and petition the state to have your full rights reinstated. This may involve a mental evaluation and background check.
Although it is probably legal for you to hunt and own a pre-1898 fire arm, one misinformed cop or conservation officer could ruin your chances of ever getting your full rights back. IMHO your taking a big risk without having a signed paper from the high sheriff saying you can own/carry said firearm.
Good Luck I hope it works out for you.

 

[tg]

Check with the local DA and state/local police the BATF once had a "Relief of Firearms Disability" status which allowed the ownership of long arms but was subject to local approval which was typicaly not an issue, this is no loner available so one must deal with it at the state and local level, a Governors pardon or haviong the conviction expunged are all options, do use caution as the results of a possesion of firearms/weapons conviction could be harsh if someone wants to stick to the letter of the law in a particularlu strict jurisdiction or has a stck up their *&^ for folks who have made these mistakes even if they have changed their ways.I know a guy who made it high in the State Police ranks that was 5 minutes from a felony 40 years ago,but his buddies did not talk, he straightened up and got his act together after the incident and had a good carrer in law enforcement.Good luck and best wishes to you.

 

[William O.]

Antique or curio guns manufactured before 1899 and replicas thereof which do not use rim fire or center fire ammunition are not included in the definition of "firearm" as it is used in Texas Penal Code Title 10, Chapter 46, which governs weapons.

From Texas Parks & Wildlife;
Firearms
Game animals and game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, EXCEPT:

Ӣwhite-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, and pronghorn antelope may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber.
Ӣshotguns are the only legal firearm that may be used to hunt Eastern turkey during the spring Eastern turkey season (see County Listing). Rifles and handguns may not be used to hunt Eastern turkey.
Ӣpellet guns and other air guns are NOT LEGAL.
Ӣfully automatic firearms are NOT LEGAL.
Ӣfirearms equipped with silencers or sound-suppressing devices are NOT LEGAL.
Ӣa shotgun is the only legal firearm for hunting migratory game birds (see Definitions - Legal Shotgun).
Nongame Animals (Non-Protected): Any lawful firearm, pellet gun, or other air gun is legal.


Muzzleloader: Any firearm that is loaded only through the muzzle. Note: A cap and ball firearm in which the powder and ball are loaded into a cylinder is not a muzzleloader. Muzzleloader deer seasons are restricted to muzzleloading firearms only.

Possession of firearms by felons: A convicted felon, regardless of where the conviction occurred, may not possess or use a firearm (as defined by Penal Code, §46.01) to hunt in this state. Under Penal Code, §46.01, a muzzleloading firearm is lawful if it is an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 or a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 that does not use rimfire or centerfire ammunition.

Having posted all that you must keep in mind that I am not an attorney and this should in no way be considered legal advice. [/b]

 

[Zonie]

I sure hope there is something to clarify the information from Texas.

Reading the above post I see that antique...guns..before 1899...are not included in the definition of firearms.

Then I see that game animals... may be hunted with any legal firearm... Remember, a muzzleloader is not by definition a firearm. :hmm:

I guess this means any gun design after 1899? That would leave a bunch of those modern things but it wouldn't include any of the older gun designs like sidelocks.

Then I see "Muzzleloader: Any firearm..."
This doesn't seem to reinstate the pre 1899 sidelock as a "firearm" so a flintlock for instance still isn't a firearm so the question is, is a flintlock or a pre 1899 percussion muzzleloading rifle legal to hunt with?

It is poorly written laws like this that keeps the lawyers in business.
Hopefully, somewhere in the verbage not mentioned in this post there are some clear and concise words that specify that pre 1899 muzzleloading guns can be used for hunting.

 

[William O.]

If it doesn't use rimfire or centerfire ammunition AND it's a pre-1898 design. That makes it a muzzle loading firearm which is exempt.

 

[tg]

That looks to me like a bolt action modern ML would not qualify as it is not a replica of a pre 1899 gun? ...cool

 

[capt_turk]

Florida's laws on antiques are worded almost exactly as Texas.

Just a few years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled against a felon that was caught with one of those unmentionable front stuffers. They are not replicas of antique, exempted guns, so are considered modern firearms just the same as rim and centerfire.
You get caught with one as a felon, and off you go to the big house for five years.