First time builder/shooter Touch Hole Alignment and Observations

[chrisfoot]

Just built my first flintlock from a kit. Started out with a Traditions. Concerned about my woodworking and finishing skills on a more expensive kit.

I have read where the touch hole needs to be above the pan. Here's a photo of my alignment:

Does this look OK? If it is too low, I assume I can file the pan deeper.

I have tested the spark/ignition several times and although it isn't as robust as what I have seen on Youtube, it does ignite the powder in the pan each time. The spark seems a little weaker and the flash not as noticeable as the videos. It just doesn't produce the same volume of smoke that the videos produce.

But each time it does produce "the flash." I fill the pan up 1/2 way. It doesn't take a lot.

Here are some photos of the finished gun. Photo1 of Flintlock

Photo 2 of Flintlock

The flash makes it look like the wood around the patchbox was sanded flat but it is just the flash.

The most trouble for me was the inletting. No matter how much I have read, I still don't have a firm understanding of how to cleanly remove wood next to the edge of the silhouette that I marked in the wood. So, although very painstaking it came out well with only one slight mistake. It is beyond me how the experts get those ornate patchboxes to inlay so nicely. I may try using an Xacto to scribe a cut in the wood instead of using a pencil to mark the outline.

The barrel was browned which went well. The finish is LMF sealer and finish which was somewhat of a touchy process. I stained, sealed and finished a bunch of junk wood before doing the stock and it was still somewhat of an error prone process.

As you can see, I like the shiny look (must come from my part time job/hobby) buffing out cars.

Looking for my next step up in kits. Still a little nervous about the whole trigger, lock, barrel alignment so I'll be looking for kits that have at least that inletting started for me. Looking at Pecatonica. Was looking at Tracks' but I read where their kits come built and then you unbuild and finish. Looking for a little more project work than that but I don't want to start with a block of wood either. Any recommendations?

 

[ebiggs1]

Your touchhole is not too low. It is way too low!
Otherwise your rifle looks very nice, indeed. I am starting my next project with a “block of wood”.
The 95% inletted blank I got for the first gun left so much work to do, I thought it wouldn’t be any harder to start from scratch. Plus the blank is square!

 

[Trench]

Try it at the range and see how it performs. I don't think the placement looks ideal, but it might work just fine.

I put a L&R replacement lock on my Traditions Hawken and the hole ended up right about where your's is in relation to the pan. I fretted about it, but it hasn't created any functional issues.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The angle of the photo makes me unsure about where the center of the hole is in relation to the pan. Conventional wisdom would say the center of the hole should be on a line running straight across the top of the pan. You can make other locations work. There is new testing done that makes me unconcerned about low vents.

I wouldn't worry until I had some range time. You may find out it works fine.

I have some ideas for you if you have trouble.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[bchannell]

First of all, your doubts seem to be completely unfounded, that looks grrrreeeaaat! Good job.

Now for even better news. If you go to blackpowdermag.com and take a look at some of the data on vent hole placement, along with some of the high speed videos of flintlocks, you'll find that it will work fine. In fact, the researcher said that a good argument could be made for a level vent, and the very next statement was, and I quote the article...
"An equally strong argument can be made for the low vent location. The photo evidence also shows an impressive flame front to go along with good timing numbers. If my rifle had a low vent, I would not change it."

So, shoot it and see if your experience parallels the writer of the article. I bet it does.

I might add that, the author dispelled a lot of myths that have been bandied about concerning flintlock priming, ie. banking powder away from the vent, amount of prime, and, yes, vent hole placement. It's a great read.

 

[ebiggs1]

I agree with you about ignition speed being the same. The problem I see is, if the vent is way low, it tends to have more fouling on it. What say you?

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Bobber,
Thanks for your kind words. I'm the "researcher" who did the testing. It was seen by the editor of MuzzleBlasts and was published there in March 2009 entitled "Pan/Vent Experiments". I like the web article best because of the photos in color.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I agree with you about ignition speed being the same. The problem I see is, if the vent is way low, it tends to have more fouling on it. What say you?

Clean is everything! I have pushed out a perfect "tube" of fouling from a removable vent. (I'll try to find pics.) I once removed a liner (very carefully) and found a layer of fouling shaped just like the vent. One reason I like a .067 vent diameter is that I can get a pipe cleaner through.

I don't know if fouling is a bigger problem with a low vent. It's possible that a shooter who is wiping his pan might accidently fill the vent with fouling. If I were wiping the pan, I think I'd follow it with a pipe cleaner.

BTW, when we ran the experiment we did the following between shots:

1 Cleaning patch in barrel
2 Cleaning patch on a loop to try wiping the inside of the vent.
3 Brushed the pan
4 Pipe Cleaner in vent
5 Compressed air through the vent

Regards,
Pletch

 

[rabjr]

I had a Perseli Bess that was the same way and it shot fine, surprisingly from what I had heard about where the vent should be. Not arguing with that fact, just that gun had a vent hole touching the bottom of the pan much to my dismay when I saw it. It went right off however without a hitch. :idunno:

 

[Birddog6]

Chrisfoot: I can't tell by the angle of your photo, it could be exactly correct for that pan. Take the photo straight across the pan level & see how much vent hole is showing, and back off with the camera a tad, you are too close is why it is blurring.

You did fine. Take it for a test run & worry about problems after they occur.... you may not have one here.

Keith Lisle

 

[mikemeteor]

Welcome to the forum, Chrisfoot.
You're past the point of no return now.
You'll find lots of wisdom here from the vets - my only advice is to be sure to take advantage of it.
Pretty much all the mistakes that can be made have been made, and these guys, along with some good books, will help you steer around them.

I would urge you continue to to "worry" about the whole trigger, lock, barrel placements, and then go ahead and do them yourself ! It IS important, but it's not rocket science. :thumbsup:
It's not bad if you go slow, ask questions, and plan your work in the logical series of steps.

Nice first kit build. :thumbsup:
Find some more of those oval-head screws like you have in your toe-plate and swap 'em in for those flatheads on the patchbox. Just a suggestion - feel free to ignore me ! :idunno:
Hope she's a good shooter.
Look forward to seeing more pics from your next build.

 

[oldarmy]

I think it's OK.It should be a little higher.but should work.
You should shoot it and find out how your ignition is.

 

[chrisfoot]

Thanks for the advice. I have just purchased the 2ff, 4ff and all the accessories needed to shoot. Will go out this week and test. Hoping I like shooting it as much as I liked building it - except for a few hair raising moments. I had a hard time finding screws locally for the gun. They were all "Modern looking".

Will let you know how it goes! looking forward to next kit.

 

[Herb]

That flash hole looks big to me, probably coned on the outside. About .070 works well for me, but I have one now about .050 that goes every time. If they are too big, say .075 or .080, you get a gush of gas out of them, may be disconcerting, and they will leak 3F powder. How big is it? You can measure it with lettered drill bits if you have them. But they will still work just fine. And if you want to grind that pan a little deeper under the flash hole, that is easy to do. I'd take the lock out and use a Dremel tool with a carbide disc. As for parts, Track's are probably just like Pecatonica's, I never heard of "unbuilding". Either will do the work you want done, which makes first builds much easier.

 

[tg]

Trial and error are the tools to use now, in the future you may want to try a gun with a hole coned slightly from the inside sized between 1/16 and 5/64, if the hole wears out that is when a liner is meant to be used, just some food for future thought.Good luck with this project the learning curve will come quickly leaving a fairly straight line and a functioning gun.3F will likely be the only powder you need if the gun is under .62 bore.

" Was looking at Tracks' but I read where their kits come built and then you unbuild and finish"

do a bit more research on the various parts sets offered by different vendors, Chambers is one of the best from what I have heard, you will find they all have some who love them and some who hate them, toss all you hear in the air and let the chaff drift away, then use what is left to help in your choices.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I suspect the recommendations for a high touch-hole and for banking the powder away from the barrel had to do mostly with the traditional non-coned long-hole-in-side-of-barrel touch-holes. In contrast to coned touch-holes that have only a very short length of narrow passage, the conventional plain touch-holes are susceptible to the dreaded fuze effect if they fill with powder, rather than having radiant heat (and/or expanding incandescent gasses) directly igniting the charge through that empty skinny tunnel. IIRC, in Larry's ultra-high-speed videos of the rifle firing, one can see that it takes a while (in terms of these ultra-fast processes) after powder grains in the main charge first ignite, before enough grains are burning to start significantly raising the pressure, increasing the rate of fire propagation, further increasing the pressure, etc, in a positive feedback, and the shot "finally" goes. There's not enough powder in the touch-hole fuze to get the pressure rise and it just burns steadily until it gets to the main charge.

Regards,
Joel