First time out, range report. '58 Rem.

[token tory]

I made it to the range today so despite 20 degree temps & a few inches of snow on the ground got to fire the 1851 Remington replica for the first time.

Based on my "expert's" advice I capped each nipple & fired them once to clear the nipples. 2 misfired the first time, but fired on re-cocking. Neither cap showed any sign of having been struck by the hammer on the first attempt.

These are the factory nipples on an Uberti & the caps were CCI #10s, from what I've read here a really tight combination.

I then loaded a single chamber at a time with 25 gr powder, a lubed wad & a ball, compressed everything into place, capped the nipple & fired that chamber. Again 2 misfires first time round, but ignition on a second strike. I wish I'd thought to mark the nipples/chambers but I didn't.

Surprisingly light recoil, most pleasant, and a satisfactory cloud of smoke belched out everywhere & the ball struck about 3" high at 15 yds. Trigger felt decent as well.

Next I loaded all 6 chambers, but with 27 1/2 Gr of powder & fired for a group duelist-style, with one hand. 2 misfires again, but I still didn't have a way to mark the chambers/nipples :cursing: Both again fired on being re-struck. I'm thinking I'm ramming stubborn (too tight) caps down on the nipple with the first strike & igniting them the second, what does the panel think?

Got about a 5" group @ 15yds. with that 6 shots.

Reloaded for a third attempt, but this time with a 2-handed hold, all 6 balls in one ragged vertical strip, all touching.

Again 2 misfires that went off when re-struck. I'm going to have to fix something here obviously.

The "field capper" won't cap, it seems to be getting hung up in the recess for the nipples so I plan on a little careful filing to make it work. On the bright side I figured out how to cap without it anyway :rotf:

 

[rafterob]

Some people carry a small wooden dowel which they use to seat the caps with once they have been put on the nipples. You may want to try that. I put mine on by hand and press them firmly with my thumb.If you continue to have the misfire issue reolace the nipples.

 

[bubba15301]

TRY remington #10 caps

 

[token tory]

Pic link. :v

Good tip with the dowel, I'll give it a shot. I assume I can't actually set the little devils off with reasonable pressure?

Sorry about the non trad jacket, but the hat might fit. :hatsoff:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Nice shooting! I guess that my load recommendation works pretty good! As far as the #10's not firing the first time around...sometimes just switching to Remington #10's does the trick, and sometimes you have to switch-out the nipples. Then there's always the 10 3/4 size RWS caps as a last resort.

Have fun and let us know how you make out!

Dave

 

[Zonie]

The mis-fires could well be the fault of the nipples.

The hammer of the Remington does not fall hard against the nipple but, rather, stops on the frame.

If 2 of the nipples are slightly short, the cap will not be compressed to the point of firing.

The fix could be to buy a new set of nipples but before I did that, I would remove all of the nipples (which you should do anyway when you clean your gun) and when re-installing them I would tighten them just until they seat against the cylinder. Then tightening them 1/16 to 1/8 turn of the wrench I'd say, "Tight enough!".

The factory usually installs the nipples "really tight" and although the difference between my kind of tightness and the factories may be small, that extra loosness can move the top of the nipple away from the cylinder far enough to make all the difference in the world.

Give it a try. If it doesn't fix the problem then order a new set of nipples for your gun.

Note: Cap and Ball Revolvers use short nipples, not the longer ones used on rifles so make sure your order is for Pistol Nipples.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Luigi and Salvatore installed the nipples together in Italy. As lunchtime approached, they sat and had some wine with their anti-paste. Even though Luigi put 3 of the correct length nipples into the cylinder, Salvatore, having one glass of wine too many, reached into the box marked, "Only usa deese on 1860 Army", and grabbed two and screwed them into a cylinder for the '58 Remmy. Eh! 3 outta 5 ain't bad!

Don't for a minute think that it can't happen! Sometimes a thousandth or so of an inch is all it takes.

Luckily caps and nipples aren't that costly to replace. Now which two did Sal put it in :idunno: :haha:

Dave

 

[token tory]

"I guess that my load recommendation works pretty good! "
Yep it does. (I'm glad the volume matches a once fired .357 mag case too as it was one of two fixed-volume measuring cylinders I had available) :bow:

I think I may start a "bonehead first time out mistakes to avoid" thread for the new guys who follow me!
One of them would be: when no powder comes out of the adapter funnel on your powder bottle, remember to remove the little dessicessant packet BEFORE going to the range! :youcrazy:

I'm going to check the nipples out with a micrometer to see if I can figure out ( & hopefully fix) the problem. I understand the points made, now all I have to do is figure out how to apply the information so I can go back & shoot more betterer :applause:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Here in Jersey we say "much more betterer" :rotf: .

Blizzard uses spent cases to measure out everything! He knows how much every common case will hold! Just ask him with a PT...he probably has a list on charts & links section by now :haha: .

Glad you had a good time! As soon as Sal's nipples are fixed, you'll be in good shape :grin: :wink:

Dave

 

[Don]

Your misfires are due to the brand of caps you are using. CCI #10 caps are very tight and cause misfires in my revolvers too. I use either Remington #10 caps or #11 caps. You may need to pinch them a little but they will work fine.

Don

 

[Curt LaManna]

Your misfires are due to the brand of caps you are using. CCI #10 caps are very tight and cause misfires in my revolvers too. I use either Remington #10 caps or #11 caps. You may need to pinch them a little but they will work fine.

Don

Respectfully, I wouldn't use #11 on the nipples sized for #10s. That is one of the ways that the dreaded "Chain fires" occur. Stick with the Remington #10s for the '58 Remingtons. Just to be safe.

 

[tnlonghunter]

I will 3rd the experience with #10 CCI's. I had a tin of German-made caps that I found in my dad's shooting box. I think they were #11's, but couldn't figure who actually made them, since I don't read German as well as I used to. They fit perfectly. I'm gonna try out the Remington's next.

 

[token tory]

I'm a bit limited in the variety of what's available locally, let me see if I can find some Remington #10s & go on from there.
Thanks for all the help BTW it's appreciated.
If that doesn't work I guess its new nipples. I looked at several places (Track of The Wolf & Possibles shop among others)but can only seem to find #11s???
Can someone suggest a good #10 sized one to fit the Uberti? 6X24tpi I think?

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

If most folks buy replacement nipples for their revolvers, they're buying #11's so they only have to stock one size for rifles, single-shot pistols and the revolvers.

And to the other poster with german caps: they just might be the 10 3/4 size I've been writing about now for several months!

All the best!

Dave

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: I don't know if I get any static on these points I will mention. #1--IMHO I wouldn't use anything to "push" the stubborn caps on the nipple, specially your thumb. I have it on excellent"authority" that you could lose a piece of your thumb. #2---If you find that your #10 caps will not fit correctly, and the #11's are too big. Then you can remove the nipples and chuck the threaded end into a variable speed drill. Then with a small file (not coarse) carefully turn the nipples down a bit at a time until they fit easily and stay in place & be carefully removed without forcing. That should eliminate any misfire problems.This has worked for me on Colt & Uberti repros. 'Nuff said-- :v "Doc"

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

No argument here, as we're in agreement!

Also the German 10 3/4 size caps are good till the fix is done or new nipples are installed.

Any way you want to slice the banana, it's still a banana!

Dave

 

[token tory]

OK, so the wooden dowel is out. :nono:

I think I need to go back to the range & figure out (I'll mark this time round) which ones are the problem, if indeed it is a specific pair. If it is then I'll try the reshaping route for a better fit.

In the meantime I dug out a caliper that is good to 3 1/2 decimals & made 3 measurements.

here's the results in inches:
The "#" is the chamber number, purely arbitrary. I just picked one & called it "1" then went clockwise round the cylinder.

"Length" is the distance from the outside face of the flat to the tip of the nipple.

"D (base)" is average diameter at the base of the conical section where the cap goes.

"D (tip)" is average diameter at the top end right below the radius of the conical section where the cap goes.

chamber	Length	D (Base)D (Tip)
#1	0.1865	0.1735	0.1570
#2	0.1855	0.1735	0.1585
#3	0.1850	0.1735	0.1620
#4	0.1840	0.1725	0.1590
#5	0.1805	0.1735	0.1585
#6	0.1805	0.1740	0.1590

#5 & #6 seem abnormally short, which may be a problem, #4 & #6 seem to have a very wide tip, possibly making cap seating abnormally hard.
#6, has both, making me thing it's my prime suspect for a bit of fine tuning. :hmm:

 

[Rebel]

Here is a place to solve your problem. http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Revolver&SubCat2ID=183&do=list&Cat1Name=Nipples

Go there, order a set of New nipples and when they arrive install them. they take standard CCI #11 caps and work fine.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Seems reasonable to start there. What I would suggest is to create a safe area near or at your work bench where you can fire caps. Then slowly attempt to fire caps until you find the two nipples that always fail to fire. Then unscrew them and do the measurements and report your findings back on this thread as a public service.

Then you have to figure-out whether or not to go the fix-it route or the replace them route. And if the answer is replacement, are you going to do all of them so that you maintain consistency in the size of the orifice on the nipples. This potential variable in the size of the orifice or the depth of said orifice can result in your groups widening-up.

If accuracy is the goal, I'd replace the entire set of nipples at the same time and start with new all of the way around the cylinder. But that's just me. I'd rather change the spark plugs than try to repair them.

Dave

 

[mykeal]

Interesting numbers. Dave's advice to fire some caps and identify the offending chambers is good. Here's my chart on cap dimensions for reference (Dave's 10 3/4 German caps are probably the RWS 1075's):