First time shooting my flintlock-- Is it too Slow?

[nchawkeye]

No idea, I have a small and large Siler...All I do is insert flint, make sure it is square with frizzen and shoot...I flip it when it needs knapping, knap by hand when it gets to be a nubbin...

A well made flintlock is a thing of joy, the springs work together, no smashing of flints on frizzens and they spark reliably...

Anything lesser isn't worth having......

 

[Greebe]

Yeah I wish that I could afford a non factory rifle but this is all I have at the moment, so it will have to do. Seems like the flint on this lock is kind of hitting and digging in a bit before sliding down the frizzen. Maybe the angle is to sharp, cock not bent right, or something. Maybe I am just making more out of it then it is, but the flint is hitting so low you have to use it bevel down as bevel up would be far below the 1/2 way point.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The angle may be wrong, but I would wait to change anything until I tried the lock with good English knapped flint. The "flint" you have in the pics is likely some kind of soft Arkansas stone better used for sharpening a knife blade. These give good sawn agate a bad name. I'd bet that a number of us would send you a good knapped real flint to try. If, after using a known good flint the lock doesn't spark well, then I'd consider a change in cock angle. Another layer under the flint was suggested and may do the same thing.

BTW, during the high point of English flintlock production, flints were typically installed with the bevel down. Neal's book, which I don't have right now, shows locks with bevel down almost without exception.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[58CAL]

Hi Happy to see your trying flintlock!! Try a paper clip for cleaning your flash hole. Also I've been told that it isn't the flame that ignites the main charge but the heat from the powder in the pan igniting. If the hole is filled or covered with powder it will actually slow down ignition. I have a little Cash dispenser that drops 2gr of 4F in the pan. That's all I need and while there may be a difference in ignition time between my cap gun and my flint I can't tell it.
All the subs are harder to ignite than real black so if your not using real black please do so. It also sounds like your flint may be hitting the frizen a little low try to get it to hit about 2/3 of the way up. I don't t have the newest lock on the block I shoot a Russ Hamm that was made over 50 years ago and I don't get anywhere near the sparks that the illustration shows but she goes off every time and fast too. Yours should do the same. FRJ

 

[MSW]

BTW, at what angle should the flint contact the frizzen?

(insert mad scientist laugh here)

Bwahahaha!

bevel up? or bevel down? shall we now torment the newbie? or confound him further?

short answer - go with what works ... sounds as though the lock geometry might be wonky, but try some of what track sends you by way of real flints before you plonk down a bunch of your hard earned, overtaxed, God entrusted dollars on a replacement lock.

 

[Greebe]

Thanks. Yeah this lock sets off the pan every time if the flint is even marginally sharp. However the flint seems to get battered by the way it is hitting the frizzen. Seems like it is hitting too straight on and not enough at a proper arc. I have played around with it quite a bit but I don't think I am going to get it to move up enough to make much difference without bending the cock.

Tonight I made a vent prick out of some high tensile wire cable. Took one stand out and carved a little wooden handle for it. This stuff is a medium carbon spring steel and is flexible and stiff. Should work well.

Thanks,
Greebe

 

[Greebe]

Yep the lock geometry does seem a little wonky. I found a cock on Numrich for $14, so I might buy another to try messing with to get things to work better. Who knows maybe the cock on this lock is just goofy for some reason and the replacement will be better without any need to modify.

 

[bpd303]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned (or I Missed it). When the lock is battering flints, which I recall you said they dulled quickly, the frizzen spring may be too strong. How much tension does it take to open it? I have had several that had that problem and lightening the spring made the flints last longer between knapping and they threw sparks into the pan better.

 

[Don Steele]

Frizzen spring strength is a topic I'm interested in learning more about myself. My "new model" Thompson lock works pretty well, but of course I'm interested in improving it if possible. The frizzen face shows gouging and the lock seems to "eat" flints at a higher rate then many others I see which makes me think that it's either a little too soft, or the frizzen spring is stronger than necessary.

 

[bpd303]

I use a trigger pull gauge to measure how much pressure is required to open the frizzen. If it is over 3oz I will adjust the thickness of the spring by grinding the outside edge at an angle until it releases at 1-2 ounces. When I grind the spring I make sure not to let it heat up by holding it with my fingers and cooling it often in water, then polishing any grinding marks out.

 

[Toomuch51]

My first bit of advice would be to take out that artificial sawed agget and throw it as far as possible, then get some natural knapped English flints. Toomuch--shoot flint

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, the flint should strike the face of the frizzen at about a 60 degree angle.

That allows the flint to shear off a thin layer of steel without bashing itself into the frizzen.

 

[Don Steele]

OUNCES...????
I've no knowledge of what is required, but have never read any other recommendation of ounces of resistance to open the frizzen...more commonly pounds.
If it works...great. seems very light, but if it works, it works.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I agree with bdp303. I am little less stringent as I am happy with anything less than 4 ounces but I do the same thing with all my flintlocks.

 

I am going to go off on a tangent here and suggest that perhaps the mainspring is weak or fractured due to workmanship or the improper reinstallation not using a mainspring vise. If thats noticalbly slow it could be a weak mainspring. Weaker and slower hammerstrike on the frizzen, and you dont get the shower of sparks you should get.

 

[Baxter]

And, did I miss reading that an English Black flint has yet been tried? If I missed that, my apologies. baxter

 

[coloradoclyde]

I’ve shot competitively since I was 12 years old (and that was a long time ago) in almost every discipline at one time or another and ”¦”¦ “There is an almost meditative quality to shooting” applies to them all but flintlocks are where you get the most from it.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I'll throw in a couple of points that I haven't seen so far.

The perception of delay is partly a personal and subjective thing, and varies with individuals. With anything slower than a fast center-fire, it's partly a matter of learning to focus on making the shot (and the follow through) and ignoring the things that are happening when you fire - parts moving in your peripheral vision, cap or priming flashing, etc. I am always aware of a flinter firing that small but perceptible bit slower than any center-fire, and if I fail to focus on the shooting to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else, I always hear the shot as clBOOM, not BOOM. Note that, unless there is a bit of a hang fire, I am not aware of discrete "clatch" then "BOOM", but I do hear the what I perceive as the beginnings of of the mechanical noise, even though the mechanics are completely finished before even the pan flash (see Pletch's videos). Heck, if I'm not focussing completely on the shot, I'm even aware of the hammer fall on my Parker Hale P.58 Enfield, although I don't hear anything different - just BOOM.

You may not need to pick the vent. Every flinter that I have owned with a chambered breech has had an internally coned touch-hole liner that has been generally self-cleaning of the touch-hole, excepting occasional partly contaminated powder or excessively dirty powder (bad lots of Elephant, for example). Thus, I rarely need to pick the vent to clean it, and I do not find an advantage in loosening or hollowing the powder just inside - I want to see grains of the main charge right at the touch hole. Since I don't want to exacerbate the eventual erosion of the rather thin-walled touch-holes in the liners when I do pick the vent, I use copper electrical wire hammered to a taper for a pick, rather than something as hard or harder than the liner material.

Regards,
Joel

p.s. I loved the M14 too - I shot well (for me) with even old well-used ones.