First Time. TC Hawken

[LIVINtheLIFE]

Buy the Schuetzen 2F and/or 3F! It's good stuff, real black powder.

I used to use Goex, but my current stash of powder is Schuetzen and I'm well pleased with it.

So in order of priority in my humble opinion:
1: Schuetzen 2F and/or 3F
2: Pryodex Select 2F equivalent
3: Standard Pyrodex 2F equivalent
4: Triple 7


As for musket caps. My local hardware store has had them available over the last few months and I've bought a few tins. They are CCI Multiple Use as opposed to Reenactors and states by CCI to be suitable for reenacting as well as live fire. Haven't tried them yet as I still have a descent supply of #11 I'm working through. But I have seen musket caps in the past that were marked "for reenactment". You maye be well served to grab a few tins of the CCI Multi-Use if you can. Just need a musket nipple for your TC to run them.

Good info. Schuetzen it is if I can get it shipped. Those are the exact re-enactment caps I mentioned. I was told they just changed the lid from “multipurpose” to re-enactment but the 4 wing caps stayed the same. Finding a conversion nipple would be the next issue is all. I think I’ve even found some on Amazon tho easily enough.

 

[Marc50]

The board is giving you good solid advice. I’ll say just use good old soap and water for cleaning.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

By all means using real black powder such as the Schuetzen is the best powder. Your rifle is designed for #11 caps. Due to fact that #11 caps are simply not available, using the musket caps is about the preferred back up option. The Reenactor caps will have enough energy to set off a charge of 3Fg black powder. The 209 primers are a solution to a really nonexistent problem.

Cleaning is simple and with the T/C removable barrel. Remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple and flush it out in soapy water. Black powder is easily soluble in water and the soap removes greasy residue from the patch lubricant. There is a screw in the side of the nipple seat. It is misleadingly called a clean out screw. It's left over from the drilling of the flash channel and T/C felt they had to give it a name and a purpose. It is too easy to destroy the screw slot and cleaning is just as efficient by removing the nipple and flushing in a bucket of soapy water.

The best protection for your bore after cleaning is a good rust inhibiting lubricant such as Barricade by Birchwood Casey. It leaves a surface protection that is far better than the greasy coating of Bore Butter that you will need to remove with rubbing alcohol so you can reliably shoot your rifle without filling the powder chamber with burnt Bore Butter and fouling.

Patch lubricants can cover all sorts of solutions. The simplest is spit. In extreme cold it can freeze on loading, so an oil-based lube is better. Sure Bore Butter can work, but so does dish soap and water, olive oil, or Ballistol and water among many other patch lubricants. At your stage of being new, there is no need for exotic patch lubricants. Even at my level of experience, I see no need for anything more exotic than 1 part of Ballistol and 7 parts of water.

Hey now, don't go dissing my favorite ball & bullet lube!

Where did you hear that animal greases can be removed with rubbing alcohol? Hot soapy water is the way to remove things like that. So far as filling the "powder chamber" (um... muzzleloaders do not have chambers) with "burnt Bore Butter and fouling",.. I have been shooting for thirty years and NEVER had that problem, so this statement is simply bull****. Even the old petroleum based lubes didn't do that.

"dish soap and water"?! for a patch lube?! Really?!

Use a non-petroleum grease or oil, depending upon whether you are shooting conical bullets or patched round balls. Yeah spit will work if you enjoy sucking on cloth patches, but products like T/C Bore Butter have been in general use for at least as long as spit patches... and you can't use spit with conical bullets. Olive oil, cooking spray, Crisco, lard and many other non-petroleum lubes work just fine. As you are beginning, maybe you should use a product that was specifically marketed as a ball and bullet lube like for instance, T/C Bore Butter?

See, I toldja that we don't always agree... and the "discussions" about cleaning and lubing black powder guns can get quite heated. Just do a search on "seasoning" if you wanna see just HOW heated... or even worse "blowing into the muzzle".

Carl Sandburg is credited with saying "Beware of advice -- even this." That is a good motto for this and all other Internet forums and other sources of information as well. Weigh everything you read here against your own experiences and feel free to throw anything away if you think it came out of the South end of a North-bound bull.

Sorry for the rant. I was forced to take someone to a shopping mall and didn't get my afternoon nap, so I am a bit grouchy.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

As to the musket caps I posted....

Back in the day I used a different brand of musket caps, I don't recall what that brand was but they seem to have disappeared.

I did seem to have trouble lighting off Triple7 with "Reenactor" CCI musket caps. #11 were only marginally better.

As to these caps I have now, I haven't tried them yet. But CCI states on their website description that they are suitable for reenacting as well as live fire. I guess I'll find out how they work when I run out of #11. Hoping for good results using Schuetzen black powder.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Now @Dale Allen Raby, I know that Bore Butter has worked for you. Back about 50 years ago in my much younger and more naive days, I did experience the mix of Bore Butter and fouling did fill my T/C chambered breech. With care, that can be avoided but I would think that @LIVINtheLIFE would like to avoid such an experience.

Also, if he is out there in the cold north above the US border, he should avoid Bore Butter. Might work to protect chapped lips, but so does my mix of olive oil and bee's wax.

You must not hunt in cold weather? Bore butter will harden up and blow the patches in cold weather. That's been proven, so no need to take my word for that. Although I did test it and got the same result. Animal tallow is the best for cold weather. I like bear grease.

TC claim that bore butter conditions bores always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe for cast iron but no way can it condition modern steel barrels. I read an article by a chemist and he said bore butter was just chap stick. I'm not sure if that's true but I wouldn't be surprised.

I think spit lubricated patches have been in use longer than Bore Butter. Animal tallow lubricated patches have been in use for a very long time. The mix of a soap and water will lubricate a patch and be a little more slick than spit lubricated patches. Maybe not the best lubricant, but it will work. Certainly, a grease based lubricant must be used on a conical bullet.

I also agree with Dale and do believe that our advice can be listened to, but critical thinking must be applied to the specific conditions and the advice must ultimately do the most good for the conditions encountered.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Now @Dale Allen Raby, I know that Bore Butter has worked for you. Back about 50 years ago in my much younger and more naive days, I did experience the mix of Bore Butter and fouling did fill my T/C chambered breech. With care, that can be avoided but I would think that @LIVINtheLIFE would like to avoid such an experience.

Also, if he is out there in the cold north above the US border, he should avoid Bore Butter. Might work to protect chapped lips, but so does my mix of olive oil and bee's wax.



I think spit lubricated patches have been in use longer than Bore Butter. Animal tallow lubricated patches have been in use for a very long time. The mix of a soap and water will lubricate a patch and be a little more slick than spit lubricated patches. Maybe not the best lubricant, but it will work. Certainly, a grease based lubricant must be used on a conical bullet.

I also agree with Dale and do believe that our advice can be listened to, but critical thinking must be applied to the specific conditions and the advice must ultimately do the most good for the conditions encountered.

Bore Butter did not exist fifty years ago, It was first marketed in the late 1980's if memory serves. The crud they used before that was some kind of petroleum grease. It was gooey and sticky and generally a PITA to work with... and it produced horrible fouling.

I'm not prepared to state emphatically that my bores are "seasoned"... certainly my stainless steel Greyhawk barrel doesn't seem to have any carbon I can see from the muzzle, but I don't get fouling like I did with the old stuff, even if I don't know exactly why.

I've not experienced patches being blown, but I generally keep my powder charges light... not more than a bit over 70 grains with .45, .50 and .54 calibers. I also do not go out shooting in extreme (-20 Fahrenheit) cold. My main complaint with Bore Butter is that it will get pretty stiff in the tube when it gets even moderately cold and in extreme heat it will turn into melted butter. I have workarounds: lube the patches indoors before you go out into the cold and in hot weather, just lube the muzzle a bit and push it down the bore with your conical bullet. I have another solution for hot weather, but I'm told I'm not allowed to discuss the Dutch word for shoes here.

Dale the Grouchy Old Man

 

[ETipp]

Bore Butter did not exist fifty years ago, It was first marketed in the late 1980's if memory serves. The crud they used before that was some kind of petroleum grease. It was gooey and sticky and generally a PITA to work with... and it produced horrible fouling.

I'm not prepared to state emphatically that my bores are "seasoned"... certainly my stainless steel Greyhawk barrel doesn't seem to have any carbon I can see from the muzzle, but I don't get fouling like I did with the old stuff, even if I don't know exactly why.

I've not experienced patches being blown, but I generally keep my powder charges light... not more than a bit over 70 grains with .45, .50 and .54 calibers. I also do not go out shooting in extreme (-20 Fahrenheit) cold. My main complaint with Bore Butter is that it will get pretty stiff in the tube when it gets even moderately cold and in extreme heat it will turn into melted butter. I have workarounds: lube the patches indoors before you go out into the cold and in hot weather, just lube the muzzle a bit and push it down the bore with your conical bullet. I have another solution for hot weather, but I'm told I'm not allowed to discuss the Dutch word for shoes here.

Dale the Grouchy Old Man

I have several tubes of Bore Butter. I also have a somewhat older plastic jar of it. The older stuff in the plastic jar is much firmer. Its great to lube Maxi Balls. The Bore Butter in the tubes is much thinner, and of course, more messy. But I've been using it for years and I'm kind of partial to the stuff. I gave up on the seasoning the barrel thing years ago. But I still use Bore Butter.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Of course, one can use the Dutch (or rather French) word for wooden shoes if we are talking about wooden shoes.

 

[ORBushman]

Trapper's MINK OIL TALLOW, patch grease, for match shooting & cold weather hunting, one 8 oz. tin - Track of the Wolf

 

[LIVINtheLIFE]

Great info here. Lots to experiment and find out what works for myself and the area. And yes to be clear the soap and water for cleaning will be used when I’m home, I was just mentioning other products to be able to throw in a range bag or something for the field. By sounds of things lots of items will work, just keep up with sufficient cleaning and try things out. Track of the wolf ive noticed also has plenty of supplies for tools and what not. I’m just unsure on shipping to Canada, sometimes with the exchange rate as it is it really isn’t worth it.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Spit patch for the range, mink oil for hunting and stay away from bore butter. Real black powder as the propellant and lube your own patches. Cleaning is room temperature water flushed through the barrel followed by WD40 and then Barricade. Personal experience only YMMV.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

"Opinions is like a**holes... ev'rybody got one.".... SGT Gray, 40th AG DET (Postal), US Army.

 

[Dave Marsh]

For sure and there are a lot of a**holes around.

 

[MaterielGeneral]

Here is a review on a percussion cap maker with link. The number 11 caps turned out great. They also provide the powders to make the cap go boom and you do not need HAZMAT to ship them because the powders are separate. You have to mix them as part of the process.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/home-made-percussion-caps-review.147175/

 

[Togo]

Get yourself a stainless steel range rod threaded in either 10-32 or 8-32, It will keep you from beating up your ramrod, your TC ramrod is threaded for 10-32.

 

[vince-m]

These guys have a great deal of knowledge and are very willing to help you, I really enjoy my visits here.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Let us know how things go for you.

 

[Whiteoak15]

I'm curious. I know you have to fill out forms and pay a fee to take YOUR OWN rifles and shotguns into Canada but does this apply to muzzle loaders as well? I quit hunting Canada when this law was passed but might go back with a "smokepole" if I don't have to pay the fee. American outfitters appreciate the business that Canada used to get.

 

[LIVINtheLIFE]

I'm curious. I know you have to fill out forms and pay a fee to take YOUR OWN rifles and shotguns into Canada but does this apply to muzzle loaders as well? I quit hunting Canada when this law was passed but might go back with a "smokepole" if I don't have to pay the fee. American outfitters appreciate the business that Canada used to get.

A US citizen coming up to Canada to hunt requires what’s called an Export permit/Fee to bring their own firearms/ammunition into Canada yes(and other items as well but I’ll keep it as simple/vague as possible). Muzzleloaders are no different, we as residents need a license/permit to possess, carry or purchase any firearms/weapon that has a projectile capable of 500fps+(And yes that includes some pellet guns) and their ammunition. These licenses we pay to take a course initially and then renew every 5 years. So yes a non-resident requires some kind of permit as well for anything above that 500fps rule. I have to do the same thing to hunt in the US in most states, unless I have a visa. Really it’s not much different in either country for a non-resident/immigrant to come and hunt.

 

[LIVINtheLIFE]

Well update for any Canadians that don’t have local stores or any US hunters coming up. It’s Expensive! I ordered 3lbs to get started of the Schuetzen. 1 of 2FG and 2 of 3FG. Along with caps, a rod, patches and some other odds and ends. All together shipped as “dangerous goods ground shipment” in Canada and she’s over $400. $50 a lbs adds up, and shipping cost equates to about 30% of the total. Oh well though I should be good for awhile regardless.