first trip to the range...two shots

[crockett]

Well since you are just starting out and it seems that by the third shot it is very difficult to ram the ball, I'd do this.
1. Before first shot, at the start of the day's shooting...snap a cap on the nipple and aim the muzzle at some soft sand or a blade of grass. The force of the blast should dimple the sand or move the grass. If it doesn't you have a plugged area.
2. Assuming the sand dimpled or the grass moved- pour your charge and use only a patched round ball. Loading a conical is MUCH HARDER. Seat the ball on the powder and mark the ramrod at that spot.
3. Cap and fire.
4. Swab the fouled bore. This might push some fouling into the drum passage so after swabbing snap another cap BEFORE loading. Once again aim at sand or grass blade. It must dimple/move.
5. Pour powder and seat PRB to same level as mark on the ramrod.
6. Cap and shoot. You shouldn't experience a problem.
7. You said it didn't fire but didn't give details.
a. if the cap didn't explode, the cap might be too small for the nipple and not seated all the way down so the hammer is just knocking it a little farther down but not impacting the cap against the top of the nipple.
b. cap exploded but gun didn't fire- wait a couple of minutes and then use a CO2 dispenser to unload the gun. This expels the round rather forcefully so aim in a safe direction. OR...if you don't have a CO2 dispenser you can remove the nipple and put a few grains of powder into the drum and replace the nipple and try again. This sometimes blows out any fouling plugging up the drum area.
My method costs you an extra cap but if you are just starting- try that and see if it solves your troubles.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't think it needs to be so complicated.

Then you give the longest post of the day. :shocked2: :rotf:

 

[mooman76]

Turn down the jag you have so you get the fit you want.

 

[gwalker]

Stores like Bass Pro often carry some of the substitute black powders. The substitutes may work all right but real black powder (such as GOEX) is better. Bass Pro and other stores that carry black powder do not put it out on the shelves for sale due to its being classified as an explosive. You have to ask the clerk if they carry Goex black powder. I’ve never had a problem finding black powder, but I have heard others say that often the clerks don’t know that they carry it, because it is stored in the back in an explosive-proof container. If they tell you they only carry what is on the shelf at Bass Pro, ask to speak to the supervisor, who would know if that particular Bass Pro shop has Goex black powder in stock.

Experiment with different sizes of round balls, as well as different sizes of patches. You can order 0.487 round balls from the Missouri Bullet Company (http://missouribullet.com/. Try them with a 0.015 inch patch. What you describe is too tight fitting and a few shots doing that will seem like a long day at the range. In my 54 cal flintlock longrifle, I use .520 round balls with a Bridgers Best 0.015 patch lubes with pig lard. I start it with my thumb and easily run it down the bore with my ramrod. Often I can shoot 15 to 20 balls or more without cleaning between shots, and accuracy is not affected, whether target shooting or hunting. Because most competitive shooting is done off-hand, the shooter will be the greater source of variation in shot placement on a target.

Regarding running a cleaning patch between shots ”“ Use your cleaning jag (what you have from Track of the Wolf should be all right) with a damp patch - not dry as a dry patch will typically get your cleaning jag/patch stuck in the bore. Not too dry but not too wet, otherwise water will pool at the bottom of your bore or in the bolster and dampen your gun powder when loading the next shot. If cleaning between shots, the damp patch should go down the bore without too much effort. The reason you only run it down and back out once is that the patch actually cleans the bore when withdrawn. It you pump if up and down several times, you’ll begin to push fouling to the bottom of the bore and into the bolster where it will soon form a blockage. For cleaning patches, be sure to use only cotton cloth, no man-made fabrics such as rayons and nylons as those fibers will melt in your bore creating more problems for you. I buy bulk diaper material at the fabric store, as it is not only 100% cotton but it is also the right thickness for the cleaning jag so as not to be too difficult running down the bore for between shot cleanings as well as cleaning after a shooting session at the range. The reason for the difficulty when running a cleaning patch down the bore when home after a day of shooting is that the fouling has dried and hardened in the bore of your rifle. Water will soon soften and dissolve it such that your bore will clean up nicely. When cleaning between shots, the fouling will remain soft for a short while due to fact that the burning of black powder does produce some moisture from the combustion process. Unless you let the rifle sit for a while, you should be able to run the damp patch/jag down and back out of the bore with little effort (unless your cleaning patches are too thick).

When cleaning between shots, the hammer should be at half-cock with the expended cap removed in order to not hamper air from escaping from the bore as you push the cleaning jag down the bore, and also to prevent air from being pulled in as the ramrod is withdrawn.

Different manufactures use nipples with different thread sizes. Track of the Wolf does give some guidance on what size of nipple fits different rifles. If they don’t identify your rifle, call the manufacture to find out what thread size you should purchase for your rifle. I don’t think nipples are sized for either 11 or 12 size caps. You’ll need to try both sizes to find which one will easily slip over the nipple on your rifle, yet also be tight enough so as not to easily slip off. Most percussion rifles seem to do well with the #11 caps. The only difference between nipples that I am aware of is the difference between nipples that use percussion caps or musket caps. Percussion caps may be difficult to find at times, while musket caps seem to be more common on store shelves. Track of the Wolf does sell percussion style nipples that should fit your rifle but are larger in order to take the musket cap. Just be sure that the recess in your hammer will center on and fall on the musket nipple. Nipples built for musket caps typically do have a larger diameter hole than nipples built for percussion caps. But that shouldn’t be a problem for your rifle. In order to avoid blow-back at the nipple, get a flash cup from Track of the Wolf and install it under your nipple. The flash cup will also keep fouling from drifting in behind your lock and fouling your lock components.

All nipples will eventually show wear at the top of the nipple where the cock strikes it. When the cap begins to misfire, it may be a sign that the nipple needs to be replaced. Ampco bronze nipples seem to be the most durable for wear.

One question I have, though, is are you using primers sold for use in reloading brass cartridges? Rather than primers, you should be using percussion caps (Remington or CCI). I’m not sure if using primers is a good idea; maybe others will offer advice on this.

Sorry Rifleman1776; this is even longer”¦

 

[logandiana]

:bow:
The wealth of information is amazing.
To answer your question about the precussion caps
This is what I was using
caps

I'll try some thinner patches first since they're cheaper and because I have 97 .490 balls left. Hopefully I can find a good muzzleloading merchant at this weekend's gun show.

The cleaning patches I was useing are these from track of the wolf.
Cleaning Patches, 2-1/2" diameter, bag of 100, pure cotton flannel, for .45 to .58 caliber

When I run the cleaning patch down in between shots whether it be damp, not wet, with spit or water or whatever. How long should I wait before I dump in the next round of powder? If I do it immediately do I risk saturating the powder or having it stick to the barrel all the way down? (I can only picture a slightly wetted finger stuck in a bowl of sugar.) Won't the grains of the gun powder stick to the rifling or will they get pushed down to the bottom with the next ball and wad? Would it make any sense to swab the barrel in between shots with some kind of fast evaporating solvent?

 

[gwalker]

I’ve never seen that brand of percussion caps, but then I’ve been shooting only my flintlock rifle for the past 40 years. They should work just fine. If they are too loose when seating them on the nipple, then look for a tin of #10 percussion caps this weekend and try them. Either #10 or #11 caps will work fine; just make sure they fully sit down on the nipple, with a enough friction to keep them from falling off. Number 10s are a tad smaller in diameter than # 11s

You might want to get a package of 0.015 and a package of 0.010 shooting patches to try. If they are prelubed, they’ll work fine for the most part but if you retrieve any you may find them torn or with holes burned in. However, if you can find unlubed patches, you can easily grease them with commercial pig lard or Crisco shortening (both found in the baking section of grocery stores). Rub the grease into the patch by putting grease on your thumb and index finger, and rub the patch between them. Some like their patches barely greased, while others like myself like the grease a little in excess. An alternative that many of the forum use, is to take calibers to a fabric store and measure cloth for thickness. If you go this route, be sure the cloth is 100% cotton. In all likelihood, the cloth will need to be washed first to remove the sizing in the material (washing may affect the thickness of the material). Hang it up to dry and then cut your patches in long strips about an inch and a quarter wide. The strip can then be greased and cut at the barrel after you have seated the ball below the muzzle or the strip can be cut into inch and a quarter squares for individual use. Either way, the shape of the shooting patch material will have no affect on accuracy.

When I clean between shots, I typically load my rifle right after I have removed the ramrod from the barrel. Again, I rinse my cleaning patches and wring them out as much as I can. Doing so seems to leave little excess water in the cloth material, and water accumulation in the barrel has never been a problem for me. The cleaning patches from Track of the Wolf should be adequate for cleaning, whether between shots or at home after a day of shooting. If they are still too tight, you could turn the cleaning jag down like some have suggested but be careful. Take too much off and your patch material may slip down the jag when you withdraw it and you’ll end up with a stuck jag/ramrod. This can also happen if the square of material is too small. You may also find that something like diaper material purchased at a local fabric store will not be as thick as what Track of the wolf sells, and it is likely to be much more cost effective.

When cleaning between shots, your barrel will be warm to hot from shooting and what moisture that might be left behind from the cleaning patch will readily have already evaporated. I’ve never had any problems with moisture dampening the powder. Nor would I recommend using a fast evaporating solvent between shots. If the cleaning patches seem too moist, I just take it and roll it between my pants leg and hand to work some of the moisture out of the fabric. A little practical experience will enable you to know when things are working just right and how to go about controlling the moisture in the cleaning patches. If you see gun powder sticking to the sides of the barrel after dumping it down the muzzle, it will easily be carried down the barrel when running your patched round ball down. It doesn’t hurt to pick your rifle up a little off the ground and tap the barrel lightly towards the breech end in order to shake the powder down and let it settle in to the breech end of the barrel.

With some practical experience, you’ll soon be a skilled rifleman as those plainsmen were that roamed those Texas’ plains 170 years ago. Just keep it simple and think about how those guys would have done it, even when under duress. It’s all part of the fun and excitement of muzzle loading shooting, as we learn how to shoot those weapons that played a role in the early history of our country. If you are not already a subscriber to MuzzleLoader Magazine, you might want to consider it, as it has a wealth of information for traditional shooters.

 

[eaglesnester]

OK now I understand why U had a missfire on yur 3rd round. U said U used oil in the bore. Probably with the thought of preventing rust. mineral oil and black powder do not mix. they form a tarry goo and will gum up the works. Only use dish soap and water to clean yur gun. If U must use oil try just a tad of WD40 on a patch and run it down the bore before storing. Store yur gun with the muzzle down to prevent anything from getting into your breech and snail. Before shooting always dry patch out the WD40 and remove the nipple and run a dills pipe cleaner down the snail into the chamber. yur good to go then my son. Good shooting and tight groups.

 

[54ball]

OK now I understand why U had a missfire on yur 3rd round. U said U used oil in the bore. Probably with the thought of preventing rust. mineral oil and black powder do not mix. they form a tarry goo and will gum up the works. Only use dish soap and water to clean yur gun. If U must use oil try just a tad of WD40 on a patch and run it down the bore before storing. Store yur gun with the muzzle down to prevent anything from getting into your breech and snail. Before shooting always dry patch out the WD40 and remove the nipple and run a dills pipe cleaner down the snail into the chamber. yur good to go then my son. Good shooting and tight groups.

I hate to say it but the oil thing is pretty much a wives tale unless one is using Quaker State 10W30 as a patch lube.

WD will be gone in a matter of days so for long term storage, a gun oil is just better for the bore and the lock internals.
A simple wipe before shooting is all that is needed to remove any residual gun oil.

 

[logandiana]

I went home with the plan of turning down the cleaning jag to get it to fit better, but before I did I thought I ought to try one more time to see how it fits. I didn't turn down the jag yet because of two things I realized. I was having a hard time pushing the jag with the cleaning patch down the barrel because of what I was using to lubricate it with. I was just laying the patch on the table and giving it a brief spritz with some rem oil. Because the amount was so small and just on the surface of the patch, the patch didn't want to give much at the muzzle and was very hard to start. Then I tried the method above. I took a clean patch and saturated it with water. Then I folded it over several times and squeezed the water out, so that now it was just damp. No problems at all starting or running the patch down and up with this method because the patch was now saturated and soaked through, less stiff. So now I know, When I am at the range I'll start swabbing once up and down between shots with a damp with water patch. (Not sure I'll try the spit method just yet, lest I make a mistep in my loading proceedure and end up clogging up my barrel with gum or tobacco). When I am at home and I am doing a thorough cleaning of the barrel I'll make sure I soak my cleaning patches in Hopps or rem oil or whatever, rather than just light spraying one side. :thumbsup:

The other issue that I need to correct is my ramrod.
The rifle was bought used and the ramrod had been replaced. I ordered a new factory replacement rod from flintlocksect and it should be here in a few days. The plan though was to just keep this one in the rifle all the time and then use a different cleaning/range rod to do all the work. I had my eyes on one of the wooden ones, but then ended up buying this rod from track of the wolf. I bought it because I have a habit of breaking things and this is advertised as 'unbreakable'. Well it's also VERY bendy, and I don't like that at all. I think that may have contributed to my 'getting the jag started problem' from earlier because I wasn't getting the jag centered over the muzzle correctly. The material of the rod itself is also very slippery and if there's anything on my hands then that just makes it worse. So I'll be looking for a new wood multipurpose rod at this weekend's show as well.

 

[gwalker]

I'm not sure if I'm reading your latest post correctly, but you shouldn't be cleaning the fouling from your bore after a day of shooting with Hoppe's or Remington oil. Black powder readily dissolves in water. To remove the fouling from the bore, use wet patches until they come out clean. If you have a patent breach, remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple, and set the breech end of the barrel in a pail of water. Use a wet patch to run up and down the bore; this will pull water into and out of the bore flushing the fouling out. Change the water several time or until it no longer is cloudy with fouling. The patches will also be cleaner but you will never get rid of all the 'black' from the bore completely. This is not a problem, as it is only residue carbon that will not cause rusting. The flushing action of water will remove the salts produced in black powder combustion, including the fouling within the patent breach; it is the salts that absorb water from the air and cause the rusting. Dry the barrel thoroughly by running several dry patches up and down the bore until you are satisfied the bore is dry. I typically run three dry patches up and down the bore 20 or more times each to make sure the bore is dry. These dry patches on the end of the cleaning jag will not get stuck in the bore, as the bore is now clean. After the bore is dry, then put some oil on a patch and run it up and down the bore until you are sure the bore is fully covered by a thin layer of oil. Don't forget to spray some oil in the patent breach to prevent rusting. Clean your nipple with a toothbrush and pipe cleaner, dry, coat the threads with a grease or oil (fish oil or cod liver oil works well and won't gum up or freeze the nipple threads in the bolster), and replace it back in the bolster.

I avoid the synthetic ramrods, as they may cause excessive wear at the muzzle. Perhaps what you got from Track of the Wolf is known not to cause such wear. Rather, I use wooden ramrods and they should be hickory. Wooden ramrods are subject to breakage but you can extend their life by using them correctly. When loading or cleaning your rifle and to avoid breakage and possible injury to yourself, grasp the ramrod 8 to 10 inches from the muzzle of the rifle and push the ramrod straight into the bore. Do this in increments of 8 to 10 inches until the ball/cleaning patch is down to the breech end of the barrel. By doing so, you'll have better control for directing the ramrod without bending or flexing it. Wooden rods will break when flexed or bent, and have been known to penetrate the forearms of the individual attempting to push the ramrod down the barrel. When loading or cleaning your rifle, take your time and think about what your doing. Hickory ramrods can last for years. As one old west lawman had a habit of saying, 'take your time, even when your in a hurry.' You'll make fewer mistakes and avoid injury.

Typically, your rifle's ramrod is 3/8 inch in diameter. I use my 3/8 inch hickory ramrod only for loading my rifle. For other uses, I carry a 7/16 hickory rod. Today, some call it a range rod but the old timers often referred to it as a 'gun stick' that was often carried inside the barrel of a loaded rifle. When the rifle was to be used, the gun stick was withdrawn and often used as a gun prop for better stability in shooting. I use mine for cleaning the bore, pulling patched balls, and as a gun prop when hunting or even target shooting. A rifle's ramrod will need to be fitted to the rifle but I leave my gun stick the full length of 48 inches, which works well for my flintlock rifle with a barrel of 42 inches. It does have a threaded brass fitting (10/32 inches) on one end for attaching my cleaning jag, tow worm, breech scraper, and ball puller. And I find it useful on occasion to keep my grandchildren 'in-line' when were out on the prairie hunting rabbits. Keeping the four grandchildren together is like herding cats.

 

[logandiana]

When I first got the rifle I wasn't sure what had been down the barrel so I used a bronze brush and Hoppes9. Upon first cleaning this produced all kinds of dirty patches from green copper fouling to black to dark brown. I had these pretty sopping wet from the solvent so they started into the muzzle easy. I did this until the patches came out clean. A little bit of sprayed remoil on a cleaning patch would not go in the barrel easily.
I mentioned before that I was not swabbing between shots. After the trip to the range I did clean the barrel with water only, but I didn't remove the barrel. I had bought one of those replacement nipples with the tubing on it and used your method above to flush out the barrel. Then after letting the barrel dry I used a patch with remoil to lightly oil the bore. As I mentioned above, the patch was hard to start in the muzzle.
I'll look for a hickory rod at the show this weekend.

 

[bpd303]

Here is a good mix to use for wiping/cleaning that an old timer gave me years ago. It works very well, better than Hoppes9 in my opinion and a lot cheaper. I have used it for patch lube too.

Black Powder Solvent/Cleaner

1 part Murphy’s Oil Soap
2 parts rubbing alcohol
2 parts peroxide

 

[gwalker]

It sounds like your on the right track. You will likely be up and running with that rifle in the very near future. If you have any questions, be sure to ask here at the forum. Most everyone using this forum will be ready to assist you. You may also want to look into joining a local group of black powder/muzzle loader shooters that holds monthly shoots. This would likely be your best opportunity to not only see how others are maintaining their rifles, but will also give you the opportunity to ask questions and get answers directly. Often local clubs will staff a table during local gun shows but you may also find someone that deals with muzzle loading guns and supplies that can put you in touch with a local club. The camaraderie is always great at such local gatherings.

George