Flash hole?

[10 gauge]

Does anybody know what the flash hole dia should be on my Pedersoli Brownbess for best performance and fast ignition. Also at what dia should the flash hole be relined. Thanks 10 Gauge.

 

[gjkershul]

I put a liner in mine and got good results after I drilled it to 3/32.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would never tell anyone to change the Touch hole diameter until they have shot the gun for several hundred shots, learned how to clean and load it, and then see if the existing diameter works!

Don't fix what " ain't" Broke!

Next, if you are having troubles, its important to know what granule size of powder are you using. FFFg, or FFg? It is important.

And, I would want to know what diameter the existing touch hole( vent) now is. Vents should only be opened up the minimum amount needed to insure reliable ignition.

Finally, its important to know if the barrel is provided with a Vent hole liner. If so, the make, and type is important to know, before even considering opening the hole to be a solution to your ignition problem.

A properly designed vent liner should allow the powder to get as near to the outside of the barrel as possible without compromising safety. The larger the vent, the less pressure the barrel will hold, leaving more powder residue in the barrel, after the barrel is fired.

This is particularly hazardous if the gun is used mainly for firing blanks, where only powder is poured down the barrel. If a burning ember( clinker) is down the barrel when the next powder charge is poured down the muzzle, you could be burned, and if you make the mistake of looking down the bore as you pour the powder, the burns can be to your face and eyes.

Most new guns come with a touch hole smaller than 1/16". If you use a drill chart, you will see that there are a number of drill sizes( by number ) from 1/16 to 5/64ths.

I only recommend the largest size for guns using FFg powder, because FFFg powder will spill out the hole during loading, leaving you an inconsistent amount of powder in the barrel from shot to shot, unless the touch hole is plugged with a feather, or toothpick before the gun is loaded. ( with powder, patch and ball.) And, I only recommend going up to 5/64" IF the barrel still misfires with the next small sized drill bit sized hole!

Remember to run a vent pick into the vent hole after loading the powder in the barrel, to make a hole in the powder to let the heat from the burning priming powder reach more than one or two granules of powder. If you plug the vent with a toothpick, during loading, the hole is already there. In that case, just prime the pan, close it, cock the hammer, aim and fire.

 

[10 gauge]

Your right my touch hole is 1/16" and I should try every powder size to see which one performs best. I was just curious because my fathers 54cal flint Hawken fires just about as fast as a percussion and my Bess had quiet the delay. This was my load 30grs Goex FFFg first then 50grs Pyrodex RS and a .530 ball on top. I did this load to use up my Pyrodex and help conserve my blackpowder.

 

[J.D.]

I put a liner in mine and got good results after I drilled it to 3/32.

3/32, Holy cow, that is .093, and IMHO waaaaaayy too big for a touch hole.

Out of curiosity, I checked the diameter of the TH in my Ped bess. Howly Cow, that TH is .103 from the factory, and while it has been shot allot over the years, I have never really seen a Th on a modern barrel wear that much. The TH is also low in the pan, so now that I am aware of the gaping cavern of a TH it will be bushed with either a 5/16 or 3/8 white lightning liner centered on the top of the pan.

That old bess is a sure fire, never fail piece of work, but I think it will be as sure fire with a smaller dia TH.

I think I will begin with a .062 dia, and see how that works, then maybe expand the hole to .067, and maybe to .070.

Those besses have LARGE touch holes, and like Paul said, if you are learning to shoot it, leave it as is until you get to know it, then line it with a liner of a large enough diameter to allow drilling in the right location for good, reliable ignition. Then begin to play with TH diameters until you find what works. I hope that something in the .067-.070 range is as reliable as the gaping cavern I now have.

10 Gauge,
I wouldn't bush the TH on that bess if it measure .062. Play with it using more black and less pyro, IMHO, 30 gr of black will barely cover the bottom of the barrel. Then maybe drill it with a # 51, then a #50, and so on, until you get reliable ignition.

Slightly coning the exterior of the Th can also make a big difference in speed and reliability.

Drill bit # Drill bit dia Fractional dia
52 .062 1/16
51 .067
50 .070
49 .073
48 .076
47 .078 5/64

 

[10 gauge]

Thank you men for all your good expert advice. This is my first flint lock and I'm new at it, I've owned and shot percussion TC Hawkens and Renegades for many years but stone throwers I'm kinda green at.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Speed of ignition of a flintlock has more to do with the design of the lock, and angle of contact between the edge of the flint and the frizzen face, than with the powder chosen. Do NOT use subs in the barrel of a flintlock. The higher ignition temperatures makes it much slower to light. Try using ONLY black powder in the barrel to see if that won't eliminate the delay you sense.

I have an article on Tuning Flintlocks posted here under Member Resources. Scroll down to " articles, charts, and links. Click on articles, and look at the index. I think its listed under " Shooting the flintlock." That should give you the basics for checking your Bess to see what is delaying the ignition.

From prior experiences, I can suggest off-hand that the chief villain you can expect to find is a poorly designed frizzen spring, that requires the frizzen to cam the spring down further to open up. This delays the opening of the frizzen, so that the sparks dribble down the face of the frizzen, rather than be thrown quickly into the powder in the flashpan.

The second problem almost surely to be present will be that the cock is set so that the flint strikes the frizzen too " Square ". It should contact the frizzen at a 60 degree angle to scrape steel from the face, rather then gouge grooves into the face.

After you read my article, and check out your gun, send me a PM with your findings, and I will walk you through the " fix ". You can do this yourself, with a minimum of tools.

 

[10 gauge]

That's very good information Paul thank you so much. I will have to try those operations with the 60 degree flint angle and make sure there's no delay with my frizzen opening. I will also try a straight blackpowder load and no more duplex loads.

 

[flashpanner]

Got a fellow that I shoots his Land Pattern Musket, better know as Brown Bess has .062" dia touch hole. Works fine. I'd play/experiment with other factors first. Going too big with touch hole turns it into a torch hole!

 

[Many Klatch]

My Pedersoli Bess has a touch hole that a 3/32" drill will fit in. It is an older Bess and I assume that the barrel has burned out to that dimension. It goes off quick so I wouldn't change it to anything smaller.

Many Klatch

 

[matt denison]

10 gauge,
Beware of what you read. It's unlikely that you need to change anyhing on your Ped. Brown Bess lock. They've been giving good service for 20+ years as is. A 1/16" size vent hole is standard and has been installed in flintlock guns for centuries. Never open it up beyond 5/64". That said, let'd look at the simple stuff that might help you get faster ignition.
1. Get rid of the Pyrodex. It simply doesn't work good in flintlocks.
2. Be sure that your flint is sharp and tight in the cock.
3. A little oil on the toe of the frizzen where it rides on th spring will do wonders to speed up your lock.
4. MOST IMPORTANT! Use less flash powder in the pan. I've seen beginners make this mistake many times over the years. You only need 2-3 grains of powder(3F or 4F) in the flash pan.

Try these suggestions before you get into kitchen-table gunsmithing on your Brown Bess lock.

Good luck, have fun, be safe.

Matt Denison aka LaffinDog

 

[riarcher]

My Peder. Bess is right around a tight 0.098.
Been that way since I got it.
3fg runs out, but it has other issues with the granulation anyways.
2Fg is much, much better. Ignition is quite fast and definate.
I don't consider it "broken", so I'm not about to fix what is working.
I can see no problem with the larger hole at all.

 

[mikee51848]

As others say, use only black powder. That mix is what is giving you the hang fire. I use 3f in mine and ignition is instant. No need to change your touch hole size.

 

[tg]

I have come to prefer a 5/64 hole in .50 and larger guns with no liner, many gun students feel that the originals used a larger hole than we now feel is proper, as mentioned there are many things that can affect ignition speed that should be addressed before opening up the hole, I had a good fast, sparky lock and good ignition with a 1/16 but tried the 5/64 and really prefer it for consistancy under all conditions, a bit of powder may come out with 3f but a feather in the hole stops that, I have not found it to cause accuracy to suffer anyway, but I shoot to minute of 18th century and am content with a 5 inch group offhand at 50 yds for hunting with a smoothbore.

 

[roundball]

Try these suggestions before you get into kitchen-table gunsmithing on your Brown Bess lock.

I agree...ingore those who claim to have private secret things to dicuss, particularly when it comes to making alterations on lock assemblies that have never needed them in their history.

Your safest and most reliable approach is to deal with people in the open forum like you are doing right now...all the other members will collectively review / ensure you're getting the straight scoop. :wink:

 

[tg]

Ah yes...clandestine, covert kitchen table gunsmithing with the lights dimmed, hidden away from the prying eyes and alert ears of the rest of the forum members.... what have we come to? :rotf:

 

[J.D.]

He's practicing for when Obama gets elected. :blah: :rotf:

 

[10 gauge]

Thank you men for all of your great input. Now I'm waiting for a big supply order to come from DGW, I've got 3 different kinds of flints, 3 types of 11ga wads, a Lyman .735 mould and much much more on its way. I even ordered this forums T-shirt today with the Brown Bess on it.

 

[10 gauge]

Well I went out the other day and loaded up the old Bess with 75grs of Elephant FFg and the pan would light but no go on the charge, so I punched the touch hole with a pick making sure it was clean and clear reprimed the pan and tried it again still no go. Did it three more times still no go. Then I picked at the touch hole until I started to draw out a little powder out of it, reprimed the pan again tried it again and it went off. Reloaded again with the FFg and another failure to fire, so I picked at the touch again until I drew some powder out TH and then it would go off. My next test was to load 10 grs of FFFFg first then 65grs of FFg, this was the trick perfect ignition and fast every time.
So I think the problem is either touch hole dia or touch hole location.

 

[Rebel]

Your MAIN problem is that worthless Elephant powder. Dump that junk and get you some Goex, KIK, or Scheutzin and you will get ignition. I almost gave up on flinters wheni first started with them because of that crappy Elephant powder.