flash in the pan 1 out of 3 times

[akjim]

I've recently purchased my first rifled Flint lock from Track of the Wolf. I've owned a .62 Caywood Wilson Chief's trade gun smoothbore for many years, a couple of percussion shotguns and a couple Trapper flint pistols but this is my first rifled flint. It's a 32" Lemen trade rifle in .54 with a Green mountain barrel. Until this rifle I have never had a problem with pan flashes. I was taught to pin out the flash whole after loading. I'm using FFg with a ffffg for the pan and am experiencing regular flashes with no ignition. I'll be using this for deer hunting so am really concerned. Unlike the Caywood that had a funnel shaped channel this rifle has a screwed in brass straight pin sized diameter liner. It's a beautiful rifle built by a Kragling and I have already fallen head over heals for her but need some help from you guys how to resolve this issue. I'm used to only using two or so 4gr charges per pan but found myself having to fill the whole pan to get this one to go off. Any suggestions would be great help as when she does go off I am thrilled with the accuracy even though I haven't really had a whole lot of time to practise yet. Here she is with my 75 yard paper from this weekend. I know it's not my M1A accurate but boy she makes my heart go warm...
thanks for any help. :hatsoff: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/jharrison58/DSC_0112.jpg

 

[Zoar]

Maybe too much pinning out...... Not knowing all details, that is my initial reaction to your post.

I own several flintlocks and I hardly ever, ever need to pin out the hole. One thing I did do that caused 1 out of 3 flashes in the pan is I did not adequately clean out the bore butter BEFORE I started shooting. That has caused me havoc.

 

[dukewellington]

Nice rifle :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

The first thing I would have thought is that there was oil or gunk in the hole. The second thing would be that the hole is too small.

 

[roundball]

I'll be using this for deer hunting so am really concerned. Unlike the Caywood that had a funnel shaped channel this rifle has a screwed in brass straight pin sized diameter liner.

I would say that's the problem

My vent holes are .070", an eyelash under 5/64"...you can see kernels of powder perched in the hole, and ignition seems instantaneous

 

[akjim]

Thanks for the help guys....I've made the dumb mistake on more then one occasion of loading a barrel I forgot to dry patch, only took a couple of times fearfully pulling a oiled wet load to remember always dry the barrel first.......
As for this, I would hope that if I just remove the lock it looks like the vent liner has a regular slotted head screw driver slot so I can remove the liner and change it out. Danny Caywood's don't have liners so I'm not used to seeing one there. Any suggestions on who to purchase larger diameter liners from? Roundball, are you using 2 fg or 3 fg in the barrel? cause a grain of FFG american pioneer is huge and would never fit inside this vent whole as it is now. (I've already gotten yelled at by a BP friend I honor for not using real Swiss BP,,but I just love the clean up of the new stuff :surrender: :grin: ) Anyways thanks again for the comments guys. Now it's off to try and get this done before the season kicks in on Saturday....

 

[Gemoke]

I`d say you should enlarge the touch hole just a bit

 

[roundball]

I prime with Goex 4F and use 3F for the main charges in virtually everything I shoot, including smoothbores...fast, clean, and accurate.

The only exceptions are .58 & .62cal round ball deer hunting loads which I originally sighted in with 100grns Goex 2F...ignition speed seems no different and the recoil is a little softer with those big heavy balls...so I've just left those sighted in with 2F...when the 2F is gone, I'll just rezero with 3F.

 

[rabjr]

You should be able to use a 1/16 drill bit and drill the hole in the vent larger.

 

[jdw276]

"are you using 2 fg or 3 fg in the barrel? cause a grain of FFG american pioneer is huge and would never fit inside this vent whole as it is now"

Isn't that a synthetic powder? Everything I have read on here is it won't go off in a flintlock due to higher ignition temps needed. Are we using real black or modern stuff?

 

[Zoar]

akjim--- quote: "I've already gotten yelled at by a BP friend I honor for not using real Swiss BP,,but I just love the clean up of the new stuff".

When you say "new stuff" do you mean NOT real back powder????

I would say THAT could also be your problem if you are not using real black powder.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I had the same problem with my .54 GPR flinter. I drilled the touch hole to 1/16" and that helped, but still had some flash in the pan. I then drilled it to 5/64" and that cured the flash in the pan problem. She goes off every time now :thumbsup: .

 

[renovato]

If you're using a substitute powder, that's the cause of your problem. Real black powder is much easier to ignite. Percussion guns don't usually have any problems using substitutes, but flintlocks almost always do. Grab a can of Goex and see if the problem doesn't go away. You might also try FFFG. Most rifles seem to prefer it, and it generates less fouling.

 

[mazo kid]

... cause a grain of FFG american pioneer is huge and would never fit inside this vent whole as it is now. (I've already gotten yelled at by a BP friend I honor for not using real Swiss BP,,but I just love the clean up of the new stuff )

Well, THERE is the problem, as others have stated. No need to get a new vent liner as you can just drill the old one to a 5/64" hole and see if that works....with BLACK POWDER!!

 

[graybeard]

Nothing but real black powder will work in a flinter. End of problem. I got lazy about cleaning and bought a can of American whoozis for a caplock. Couldn't even get consistent ignition there! :cursing: After several misfires I changed to Goex and shot the rest of the day with no problems. :grin: graybeard

 

[akjim]

Man,,,,I love these forums. :bow: More information available in a moment then in days of reading in the man cave.
Thanks for all your advice. Never even thought about the subsititute powder as I've always had a lazy streak in me a mile long when it comes to trying to reduce the cleaning time on my rifles. Spent more then my share of time cleaning off cosmoline from mil surp firearms so the allure of sulpher free easy clean up powder was just too strong. :surrender: Until this rifle I was dealing with smoothbores that never had ignition problems. Goex it is from now on. I'll go get a can of FFFG and see if I need to do anything else. I've hunted with 100 to 110 grain of the substitute, assumption that I can continue with that charge? One more stupid question if I haven't hit my limit yet. Is pyrodex also on the no no list as well?
Thanks guys.

 

[Walks with fire]

Pyrodex is not good in a flinter either. With a .62 I would use 2f but 3f is used by some even though it's probably not recommended by the barrel maker. Probably get much better groups with 2f and your touch hole size should be .070 or perhaps as large as 5/64 or .078 with 2f.

Use real black powder!

That's a beatiful rifle there.

 

[mazo kid]

Goex it is from now on. I'll go get a can of FFFG and see if I need to do anything else. I've hunted with 100 to 110 grain of the substitute, assumption that I can continue with that charge? One more stupid question if I haven't hit my limit yet. Is pyrodex also on the no no list as well?
Thanks guys.

Yep, no Pyrodex either! You should be fine using the same charge as the American Pioneer as it is a tad more powerful. If I remember in reading about it they said to reduce the charge about 10% of the black powder load.

 

[akjim]

This one is a .54 so I'll go get the Goex FFFG. Could be that the Caywood flash whole is a funnel shaped cone into the smoothbore that I never had this problem with substitutes. No biggie, I'm not so stubborn as I won't change course to the real stuff what with all the concensus.
She is beautiful, oiled finish over hand striped stained maple . First time I've gotten away from Varnish and poly wood finishes in years other then the US walnut stock. I'll be hand oiling this finish for a long time to come I hope.

 

[Zoar]

A 62 cal you probably want to go with 2F of REAL BLACK. You should be open to experimenting but I would say 90 to 100 grains sould give you all the punch and penetration and accuracy you need, but as we all have learned--Guns have their own individual minds and testing is the only way to know... I am so glad we helped you ascertain that REAL BLACK POWDER is the only way to go in flintlocks. It is so much MORE fun too!!! And soon you will learn a few tricks and the cleaning is actually EASIER!!! yeehoo! Once you go BLACK, you never will go back.... Trust us on this.